Thursday, October 1, 2015

Baptist false gospel: David Cloud, Lester Roloff, Charles Spurgeon

David Cloud, Independent Baptist 
"The sinner who would be saved must repent, which repentance will always result in a changed life. This means that we cannot have the attitude that we will only deal with specific sin after the person receives Christ. That is the philosophy of many. If the sinner brings up his love for liquor, or his love for immoral relationships, or his love for gambling, some think it best to delay dealing with such things until after that one has come to Christ. And sometimes this is the best policy, but only if the sinner is clearly under the conviction of the Holy Spirit about his sin and is clearly ready to turn to Christ. On the other hand, if the sinner obviously still wants to hold onto his sin, the personal worker must deal with the fact that he must turn from it."

David Cloud believes that sinners must have the desire to stop sinning before they can be saved. He believes that until they gain this desire, they cannot be saved. That is not true at all, that is works salvation. Everyone that is saved has still "held on to their sin". When I got saved, I have still held on to my sins. I still lie. I still covet. I still lust. I still disobey God's word. I am still not as thankful as I should be. I still use corrupt communication. I have not let go of any sin (other than unbelief in Christ) and neither has David Cloud. To cease holding on to sin is to become sinless and perfect.

It is impossible for anyone to turn from sin. Any sin you commit before you get saved you will still commit it after you get saved. The only difference between a lost man sinning and a saved man sinning is that the saved man is SAVED FROM HIS SIN and the lost man is not. God does not impute sin to a saved man (Rom. 4:8-9), He does to a lost man. A saved man has peace with God, a lost man has the wrath of God abiding on him (Rom. 5:1, John 3:36).

David Cloud believes in works salvation:

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Is it even possible for a lost man to turn from sin? No!

Ephesians 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others

Romans 3:
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
[12] They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
[13] Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14] Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15] Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16] Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17] And the way of peace have they not known:
[18] There is no fear of God before their eyes

Psalms 40:12  For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.

David Cloud thinks that lost people should stop holding on to sin, but what about sin holding on to them? "mine iniquities have taken hold upon me"

By the way, if man could turn from his sins, why would we even need Jesus Christ? Why did the Father send His Son to die for us? Why didn't the Father just say, "Oh, I'll just let them turn from their sins on their own." I am certainly glad that God didn't say that! (unlike David Cloud)

Can a saved man turn from sin?

The man after God's own heart did not "turn from sin" (King David).

The great Christian and apostle disobeyed God's clear commandments and warnings and admitted that he was a work in progress (Paul).

Philippians 3:
[13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
[14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus

All that a sinner has to know about sin in order to be saved is that he has sinned against God and that Christ died for those sins!

1 Corinthians 15:
[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

'Repentance" is a change of mind, not "turning from sin". God "repents" many times in the Bible, did He "turn from sin"? Of course not! God has no sin!

Genesis 6:
[6] And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
[7] And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them

Deuteronomy 32:36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left.

And there are dozens more examples of God repenting. Repentance is a CHANGE OF MIND, not "turning from sin".

Here are other Baptists who hold to this false gospel.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon, “The Royal Saviour,” Metropolitan Tabernacle, London, England, Feb. 1, 1872.
"Just now some professedly Christian teachers are misleading many by saying that ‘repentance is only a change of mind.’ It is true that the original word does convey the idea of a change of mind; but the whole teaching of Scripture concerning the repentance which is not to be repented of is that it is a much more radical and complete change than is implied by our common phrase about changing one’s mind. The repentance that does not include sincere sorrow for sin is not the saving grace that is wrought by the Holy Spirit. God-given repentance makes men grieve in their inmost souls over the sin they have committed, and works in them a gracious hatred of evil in every shape and form. We cannot find a better definition of repentance than the one many of us learned at our mother’s knee: ‘Repentance is to leave the sin we loved before, and show that we in earnest grieve by doing so no more’”

Lester Roloff, Repent or Perish, 1950s.
Repentance is a godly sorrow for sin. Repentance is a forsaking of sin. Real repentance is putting your trust in Jesus Christ so you will not live like that anymore. Repentance is permanent. It is a lifelong and an eternity-long experience. You will never love the devil again once you repent. You will never flirt with the devil as the habit of your life again once you get saved. You will never be happy living in sin; it will never satisfy; and the husks of the world will never fill your longing and hungering in your soul. Repentance is something a lot bigger than a lot of people think. It is absolutely essential if you go to heaven


Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

--Eli Caldwell


  1. You are Wrong !!!
    James 2:14-26
    What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
    If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
    Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
    Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    1. Wrong about what? What does James have to do with the gospel of the grace of God? Absolutely nothing. James preached the gospel of the kingdom, not the gospel of the grace of God revealed to Paul. James wrote to the Israel, not Gentiles under grace. James wrote prophetically to Israel's last days, the 70th week of Daniel when the Second Coming is at hand, not the mystery dispensation of grace that we live in now.

      James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the TWELVE TRIBES which are scattered abroad, greeting.

      James 5:
      [1] Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
      [2] Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
      [3] Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for THE LAST DAYS.

      James 5:
      [8] Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
      [9] Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

      Believing Israel will get their sins blotted out out at the Second Coming of Christ (Zech. 3:9, 8:8, Isa. 1:27, 4:4, 25:9, 27:9, 54:13-14, 59:20, 60:21, Jer. 30:17, 31:31-34, 32:37-42, 33:8, Ezek. 36:24-33, Hos. 2:23, Deut. 30:6, Joel 3:20-21, Heb. 3:14, 8:8-12, Acts 3:19-21, Rom. 11:25-27, 1 Pet. 1:5-9, etc) which is why James says that the salvation of their souls is FUTURE, not present tense....(and they have to work righteousness to be justified)

      James 2:
      [19] Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
      [20] For the wrath of man WORKETH not the righteousness of God.
      [21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, WHICH IS ABLE to save your souls.
      [22] But be ye DOERS of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

      James writing to Israel said that they had to make their faith perfect by their works. He taught that justification came after a process of doing works by faith (James 2:14-26). But Paul, writing to us Gentiles under grace, said that we are justified by the faith of Christ (not our own faith) when we believe on Him. We are justified without works. Abraham received imputed righteousness when he believed what God said about him having children in Genesis 15, but he was not justified until he did works until Genesis 22. But now, under grace, we receive imputed righteousness and justification at the same time.

      Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

      Romans 3:
      [20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
      [21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
      [22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
      [23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
      [24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
      [25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
      [26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
      [27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

      Romans 4:
      [4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
      [5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

      Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

      I recommend you look at this post as well

      Thanks for the comment

  2. Thank you Hoss for "Rightly Dividing". It is my sincere hope that someday those who base their salvation on good works will actually study the Scriptures and learn "Who" is speaking and "To Whom" are the words be spoken.

    For far too long folks have been following after denominational and manmade traditions, all-the-while disregarding the truth as found when we "Rightly Divide" the Scriptures.


Your questions or comments welcome.