Sunday, June 21, 2020

"Not appointed us to wrath". Proving the Pre Tribulation rapture


Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. 

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him

The above verses prove that the church which is the Body of Christ will not go through the Tribulation period, Daniel’s 70th Week. Of course these are not the only verses that prove this, but they are the most plain and they speak directly on the matter. We will be raptured before any part of Daniel’s 70th Week.
There is indeed a “Post Tribulation” rapture, but it is certainly NOT “Pre Wrath”. The Jews and believers of the gospel of the kingdom during that time will be under God’s wrath and judgement. That is the purpose of the tribulation, to judge Israel for their rejection of God and His word. Even in the first three and a half years (which some people inaccurately claim will not be so bad) is a time of God’s judgement. For it is during this time that God is sending a strong delusion that everyone on earth will have to resist if they are going to escape the deception of the son of perdition (few people will). 

Being delivered from God’s wrath is a unique position that we have today as members of the Body of Christ (God will not pour out wrath on Himself!). Many times in past dispensations God’s people experienced His wrath. Many times David prayed, “O LORD, rebuke me not in thine anger” (Ps. 6:1, 38:1, 78:31, 79:5, 85:3-5, 88:7, 88:16, 89:46, 90:7-9, 90:14, 106:40). Aren’t you glad that we do not have to pray for God not to pour out His wrath on us when we mess up? We are justified by faith and have peace with God (Rom. 5:1). This is a unique position to the Body of Christ, in times past and in the future God’s people (the nation of Israel) experience His wrath (Ezek. 5:13-15, 6:12, 7:12, 21:1-22:31; Numb. 1:53, Prov. 11:8, Zech. 7:12, Deut. 11:17, 2 Chron. 30:8-9, 36:6).

The Post Tribulation Pre Wrath proponents insist that the rapture of the church which is the Body of Christ is close to the middle of the Tribulation but that we will not experience God’s wrath, only persecution and tribulation by unbelievers. This is clearly not true. The Bible makes it very clear that there is a rapture at the END of the Tribulation (not the middle) that is for the believing remnant of ISRAEL and believers of the gospel of the kingdom (not the Body of Christ) and that the tribulation was GOD’s WRATH as judgement on Israel (not unbelievers persecuting the Body of Christ). 

Post Tribulation Pre Wrath proponents often site Matthew 24:29 and Mark 13:24 in their sermons and literature as proof texts for their position. They say that believers will only experience “tribulation” and not God’s wrath. However, they neglect to site Luke 21:23. More than likely because it mentions God’s vengeance and wrath, which debunks their position. 

Luke 21:
[20] And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
[21] Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
[22] For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
[23] But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
[24] And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
[25] And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
[26] Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
[27] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
[28] And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Post Tribulation Pre Wrath proponents still insist that this is not God’s wrath. I find this to be an extraordinary position in light of the fact that there are dozens of verses that mention this rapture as being AFTER the nation of Israel experiences God’s wrath. Many of them are in the book of Isaiah. Below I have posted many passages in Isaiah and one in Jeremiah that mention this Post Tribulation rapture of the remnant of Israel. Each passage is clearly in reference to the remnant of Israel being gathered to enter the Millennial Kingdom after the Tribulation. So that you can see the context for yourself, I have posted lengthy segments of the chapters.

Isaiah 11-12
[1] And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
[2] And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
[3] And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
[4] But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
[5] And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
[6] The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
[7] And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
[8] And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
[9] They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
[10] And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
[11] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
[12] And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (The so called “Post Tribulation” rapture is NOT a gathering of the church the Body of Christ, but of ISRAEL.)
[13] The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
[14] But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
[15] And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
[16] And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt
[1] And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise thee: though thou wast angry with me, thine anger is turned away, and thou comfortedst me. (The Lord was ANGRY with His people; they were under His wrath! Though it will be the Gentile nations persecuting Israel, it is God that brings this judgement on them. Remember it is the Lord that opens the seals in Revelation 6:1 that starts the Tribulation period.)
[2] Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
[3] Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.
[4] And in that day shall ye say, Praise the LORD, call upon his name, declare his doings among the people, make mention that his name is exalted.
[5] Sing unto the LORD; for he hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth.
[6] Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.

Isaiah 51:
[17] Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the LORD the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out. (Just as in Isaiah 12:1, the context in chapter 51 is the nation of Israel entering the Millennial kingdom. And likewise it describes the nation as experiencing God’s wrath! Those who will survive the great tribulation will not get delivered from the wrath of God. They will not be members of the Body of Christ.)
[18] There is none to guide her among all the sons whom she hath brought forth; neither is there any that taketh her by the hand of all the sons that she hath brought up.
[19] These two things are come unto thee; who shall be sorry for thee? desolation, and destruction, and the famine, and the sword: by whom shall I comfort thee?
[20] Thy sons have fainted, they lie at the head of all the streets, as a wild bull in a net: they are full of the fury of the LORD, the rebuke of thy God.
[21] Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken, but not with wine:
[22] Thus saith thy Lord the LORD, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:
[23] But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.

Isaiah 54:
[5] For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
[6] For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
[7] For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
[8] In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer. (Again, the context is the believing remnant of Israel going into the Kingdom. God says that during the tribulation that they will be “forsaken” and that He will hide His face from them in His “WRATH”. This is not the Body Christ. These are Jews that believed the gospel of the kingdom and experienced God’s wrath.)
[9] For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
[10] For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

Isaiah 60:
[1] Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
[2] For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
[3] And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
[4] Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.
[5] Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
[6] The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.
[7] All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.
[8] Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?
[9] Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.
[10] And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.
(Again, the whole chapter is on the Millennial Kingdom and it is the believing remnant of Israel inheriting the earth and being served by the Gentiles. But this is after God SMOTE them in His WRATH.)
[11] Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.
[12] For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.
[13] The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.
[14] The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
[15] Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.
[16] Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
[17] For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.
[18] Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
[19] The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
[20] Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
[21] Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
[22] A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

Jeremiah 32:
[36] And now therefore thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, concerning this city, whereof ye say, It shall be delivered into the hand of the king of Babylon by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence;
[37] Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:  (The context is the New Covenant that God will make with the believing remnant of Israel at the beginning of the Millennial reign. This post tribulation gathering is AFTER the remnant is driven out of the land in God’s ANGER, FURY, and GREAT WRATH.)
[38] And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
[39] And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
[40] And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
[41] Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.
[42] For thus saith the LORD; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them

Of course these are not all the references. There are dozens of references to the Post Tribulation rapture of Israel throughout the Old Testament (Ezekiel 11:16-20, 20:33-38, 28:25-26, 34:1-31, 36:16-38, 37:1-14, 37:21-28,  39:23-29; Jeremiah 23:1-8, 30:1-31:9, 31:31-34, 32:36-42, 33:1-18, 50:18-20; Isaiah 10:20-23, 26:19, 51:11, 54:5-9; Micah 2:12, Hos. 1:11, Ps. 17:18, etc.). This is yet another reason why this Post Tribulation rapture cannot be the rapture of the Body of Christ. Our rapture was part of the mystery of the age of grace (Rom. 6:14, 11:25, 16:25, Eph. 3:1-9). Our rapture was a mystery given to Paul by the word of the Lord, it is not the prophesied rapture and resurrection of the nation of Israel that has been spoken about throughout the Old Testament. 

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This was not an exhaustive defense of the Pre-Tribulation rapture, much more could be said. This is simply food for thought and perhaps some references that you will find useful in understanding this subject.

Wednesday, October 16, 2019

“Brain washed by NASA” flat earther claim

Flat earthers often accuse normal people of being “brain washed by NASA” because we believe that the earth is a globe.

First of all, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration was founded in 1958...and the globe earth was a well established fact before 1958. Secondly, most people do not know anything about NASA and have never kept up with the administration’s research, so how could we be “brain washed” by them? Thirdly, who cares? NASA is a cool agency and they have a lot of smart people working for them. Great people to learn from.

Meanwhile, this lunatic is who the flat earth crowd is following...Mr. (or Mrs.???) Eric Dubay


So yeah, I’ll stick to following NASA. When Eric takes off the dress and gets a hair cut then maybe I’ll listen to his so called 200 Proofs the Earth is not a Spinning Ball. The main proponents of the flat earth are weirdos making YouTube videos in their basements...and they see a problem with us “following” NASA. Give me a break.

Answers in Genesis “Falling Flat” by Dr. Danny Faulkner

For those of you that don’t know, the idea that the earth is flat and not a globe has risen in popularity in the past few years. More people now believe the earth is flat than they have in 2,000 years. It is a free country and you can believe what you want, but I think the flat earth idea is completely ridiculous and it is embarrassing that there are so many fellow Christians that believe the earth is flat.

Dr. Danny Faulkner (MS Physics from Clemson University, MA and PhD Astronomy from Indiana University) of Answers in Genesis has written an excellent book on the topic covering the biblical, historical, and scientific evidence refuting the idea that the earth is flat.

https://answersingenesis.org/store/product/falling-flat/?sku=10-2-519

There is no verse in the Bible that says the earth is flat. None.



Hope Bible Church Q/A “What is the firmament”