A friend asked me some questions about the Bible version issue. Below (red font) are paraphrases of his questions/concerns about the KJV Only position. These types of questions are common ones, which is why I wanted to post these.
--Eli Caldwell
1.) PERFECT TRANSLATIONS? One of the main reasons I studied Greek in college is because I do not believe that there is any such thing as a perfect translation.
That is the approach that most people have. That does sound convincing at first, but think about it: looking at the Bible itself, does God make translations? This is what we must ask. Certainly if there is no example of God making and using translations then you may have a good point. However, it is my belief (as well as other King James Bible believers) that there are many examples of God making and using translations.
Most people believe that the New Testament was originally written in Koine Greek and there is internal evidence in the Bible for that, and so that is the premise that I will begin at.
Perfect translations?
There are hundreds of Old Testament quotes (originally written in Hebrew) that are found written in the New Testament (originally written in Greek). God inspired New Testament writers to quote Hebrew writings in Greek, those are inspired translations. [Note: some would contend that Jesus and the apostles did not quote Hebrew scriptures but rather a so called Greek "Septuagint". But there is no record of any Septuagint existing before 250-330 AD. Jesus quoted HEBREW scriptures, not a Greek translation according to Matthew 5:17-20.]
Acts 21:40-22:21 records an inspired translation. Notice that Paul speaks in HEBREW "And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,...." BUT Luke wrote Paul's words down in the New Testament in GREEK. God used Luke to write a perfect translation of what Paul said in Hebrew.
Here is a whole list of inspired translations found within the Bible:
A.) Ge 42:18-20; cf Ge 42:23: Joseph spoke in Egyptian; his words were recorded in Scripture in Hebrew
B.) Ezra 4: A Syrian letter. The “copy” follows Ezra 4:11 in Hebrew.
C.) Ps 110:1; cf Lu 20:42-43: A Greek translation of a Hebrew Psalm.
D.) Mark 5:41: Aramaic translated into Greek.
E.) Acts 22: Paul spoke to them in Hebrew (Ac 22:2); Luke recorded it in Greek.
F.) Acts 26:14: Paul recites to Agrippa what Jesus said to him in Hebrew, and it is recorded in Greek.
G.) Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34 : From Hebrew OT text (Ps 22:1) To Aramaic (in two spellings of the same word; Eli = Eloi) Transliterated from Aramaic into Greek. Translated right inside the verses from Aramaic into Greek.
(list given by Mr. Brandon Staggs of AV1611.com)
2.) DO WE NEED ORIGINALS? Of course we do not have any of the originals of any of the various books of the Bible.
That is certainly true. However, does it matter? Must we have "originals" or has God preserved His word for all generations? This is a most important question on which the whole Bible version debate hangs. If God did not preserve His word, then the King James Only issues falls apart. But if God did preserve His word, then the King James Only belief is legitimate and can be discussed.
Before we look at what the Bible says about itself in regards to preservation, think about this: if God did not preserve His word, then the Church has been using corruptions of the word ever since the 1st century. If that use true, then we've never really had scripture, we have never really had the word of God. We have only had corrupted copies. The apostles and a few first century churches were the only ones to have have in their hands the holy scriptures--is that true?
The Church, the universal Body of all saved people (1 Cor. 12, Eph. 1-3), as well as local assemblies are suppose to be the "pillar and ground of the truth". In other words, the church is suppose to be grounded in truth (the word of God) rather than error. We are not built upon tradition of men (Col. 2:8-23), but absolute truth.
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
God instituted the local church to be the "pillar and ground of the truth", but would He do this without providing "the truth"? Certainly not. God builds churches on the proper reception of the word of God: 1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
The church was first started on the truth of the word of God as its pillar and ground, and I believe that this will also be true for the end of the church as well. In 2 Timothy 3 Paul told us what it would be like in the "last days" of the church.
2 Timothy 3 Outline:
"last days" (verse 1)
description of apostasy, people "resisting the truth" (verses 2-13)
cure for apostasy: "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (verses 14-17)
Timothy had the "holy scriptures" and those are the cure for not being deceived (verse 13).
The point being that when the church was started the scriptures were its pillar and ground and that is also said to be true in the last days of the church.
To say that God has not preserved His word for the church goes against His plan for the church. God's plan for the church is that we (as members of His body) bring forth much fruit, but you can only do that through the word of God...If we do not have the word of God, then we cannot bring forth fruit.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 15:
[1] I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[2] Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[3] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[4] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[5] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[6] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[7] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[8] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
God specifically saved us so that we could live a life WASHED by the word of God.
Ephesians 5:
[22] Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
[23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
[24] Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
[25] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
[26] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
[27] That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
The word of God washes the church, the church does not wash the word of God. If the Bible is dirty or has blemish than it could not help someone that is also dirty and has blemish. It takes something that is WITHOUT blemish to cleanse something that has blemish (1 Pet. 1:19). "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Matthew 7:5)
Therefore the original autographs are not necessary, else God's purpose for the church was vain.
3.) "THE GREEK TEXT"? I believe that the Greek text itself is open for some debate.
There are different Greek texts. I am afraid that "the Greek text" is a very wrong statement to make. This statement implies that there is only one Greek text, but that is not the case.
There approximately 5,550 Greek manuscripts available today. These individual manuscripts can contain only one verse of scripture, or they can contain a whole New Testament. These manuscripts are mainly from two different places: Antioch, Syria and Alexandria, Egypt. These manuscripts are DISTINCT to their region of origin. The Alexandrian manuscripts are very few in number, there are only about 40 of them in existence and they are in good condition. These manuscripts also tend to be older (330+ AD) in comparison to Antioch manuscripts (500+ AD). However, the readings of the Antioch manuscripts are also the predominate readings found in the writings of early "church fathers" and the early Latin and Syriac translations (150+ AD). The Alexandrian manuscripts have 5,000+ less words in there New Testaments and the oldest and best of these Alexandrian codices contain apocryphal books in them, such as the Shepherd of Hermes and the Epistle of Barnabas.
From these manuscripts men make what are called "Greek Texts". A Greek Text is a compilation of readings from the Greek manuscripts which form the New Testament. Some Greek texts are based on ANTIOCH manuscripts and some are based on ALEXANDRIAN manuscripts. These New Testaments are far from identical. [Therefore, if you have a English translation of the Antioch manuscripts you cannot compare it with a Greek text formed from the Alexandrian manuscripts.] There are over 70 different Greek Texts and they are all different!
"The Greek Text" is not a good term to use. It can be deceiving to use that phrase around those who do not know all of the above information.
4.) NO PROMISE OF PRESERVATION? No where in the Bible, or anywhere else, does God promise to guide a group of human (and therefore imperfect) translators to come up with a perfect translation.
That is true in a sense, God does not name who He will or won't use to preserve His words, but He did promise to preserve His words perfectly.
Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
Isaiah 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
Isaiah 40:7-8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Psalms 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Psalms 100:5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.
Psalms 117:2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
[John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.]
Isaiah 55:10-11 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Isaiah 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Matthew 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Psalms 119:89-91 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth. They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants.
God promised to preserve His words and He promised that they would remain inspired. They "LIVETH and ABIDETH forever". A copy of scripture is still "holy" and "given by inspiration of God" according to 2 Timothy 3:15-17. Paul called the scripture "HOLY" (Rom. 1:2, 2 Tim. 3:15) even though all he had were copies.
God is the preserver, not man: The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Ps. 12:6-7) God only uses man as an instrument. God does promise to do holy/perfect/righteous deeds THROUGH HIS PEOPLE, even though they are fallible (Phil. 1:6).
People being fallible is not the issue. The issue is did God promise to preserve His words. Jesus said that man would live by EVERY WORD OF GOD.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
5.) INFALLIBLE TRANSLATIONS? Therefore, we can argue over the relative merits of the various English translations such as the NIV, KJV, NRSV, NKJV or any other version, but I do not buy the idea that any translation is infallible
But something MUST be infallible.Whether it be in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, or English, the word of God IS somewhere on the earth WITHOUT error. If it is not the King James Bible, than it must be some other version, text, manuscript, or combination of manuscripts.
Go back to point number 1 and you will see that inspired and infallible translations do exist. That IS how God has always worked beginning with the book of Genesis.
The question is: what do you believe is infallible? That is the issue. Absolute truth. Anyone can profess to believe in the inspired/infallible original autographs, but that is not such a bold statement if you do not believe that those words are still around today. There is nothing SURE for you to defend. What really gets you in trouble is to believe the Book in your hand is inspired and infallible.
6.) STRAIGHT TO THE GREEK? I wanted to learn Greek for myself so that I could go straight to the Greek and not rely on any one translation...
That is good, if you believe that a particular Greek text is infallible. However, Greek Texts are still only compilations made by man of select readings from Greek manuscripts, and those Greek manuscripts are still only human made copies. Therefore we do not have any options that do not involve man as being the instrument. Again, I believe that the issue comes down to divine preservation. God said that HE would do the preserving (Ps. 12:7), we just have to identify and believe those words.
7.) COMPARING THE TRANSLATIONS? ...or so that I would at least be able to compare the various translations with each other from Greek.
That is also good. We were told to "prove all thing" and "hold fast to that which is good" (1 Thes. 5:21). However, just keep in mind that the King James Bible does not come from the Alexandrian based manuscripts and therefore is not subject to such Greek Texts. For example, it would not make a lot of sense to compare the KJB with the Nestle/Aland 27th edition Greek New Testament because they are not related. It is also important to note that the King James Bible is not a direct translation. The KJB comes from "the original tongues and with former translations diligently compared and revised". The KJB is based on former English translations, German/Spanish/French/Latin translations, and Hebrew/Greek texts.
8.) HOSS'S BELIEF IN THE KJB? You seem to believe a step beyond me, though. Not only do you think the KJV is the best available version, you seem to think that it is a perfect and infallible translation.
That is what I believe. The King James Bible is the inspired and preserved word of God in English. This belief is based on the following:
1.) The promise of divine preservation of "ever word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" (Josh. 1:8, Isa. 30:8, 40:8, 55:10-11, 59:21, Ps. 12:6-7, 100:5, 117:2, 119:89-91, Matt. 4:4, 5:17-18, 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 4:4, 21:33, John 10:35, 1 Pet. 1:23-25).
2.) God's use of the King James Bible and the sources from which it was compiled. God used these sources for centuries while the Alexandrian manuscripts were undiscovered. There is no evidence that any of the Alexandrian manuscripts were heavily used. It makes sense for the readings that the church has been using over the centuries are the preserved ones. "Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph. 5:25-27)
3.) The King James Bible clearly stands out above the other English translations. The modern versions omit up to 50,000 words, 16 whole verses, and add footnotes that say 20-30 more verses do not belong. There are dozens more verses that are changed in a negative manner.
9.) WHY DO KJB ONLY BELIEVERS LEARN GREEK? If you believe that the KJV is infallible, why would you want to learn Greek, or read Greek, or compare translations? You already have the perfect one. Why you would be interested in any Greek word studies or comparison of verses across translations.
A lot of KJB believers learn Greek. The man who is often referred to as the "spear head of the King James Only Movement" (White, KJVO Controversy) knows and taught Hebrew/Greek in his college (Dr. Peter Ruckman). Most every KJB believing Bible college teaches Greek. Such knowledge can be used to defend the KJB. However, most KJB believers are not really interested in learning the Greek language, just manuscript evidence.
Comparison of translations is one of the reasons why we believe the King James Bible is infallible. The KJB is stronger on the Deity of Christ, Trinity, eternal security, resurrection of Christ, and the blood atonement of Christ.
--Eli Caldwell
1.) PERFECT TRANSLATIONS? One of the main reasons I studied Greek in college is because I do not believe that there is any such thing as a perfect translation.
That is the approach that most people have. That does sound convincing at first, but think about it: looking at the Bible itself, does God make translations? This is what we must ask. Certainly if there is no example of God making and using translations then you may have a good point. However, it is my belief (as well as other King James Bible believers) that there are many examples of God making and using translations.
Most people believe that the New Testament was originally written in Koine Greek and there is internal evidence in the Bible for that, and so that is the premise that I will begin at.
Perfect translations?
There are hundreds of Old Testament quotes (originally written in Hebrew) that are found written in the New Testament (originally written in Greek). God inspired New Testament writers to quote Hebrew writings in Greek, those are inspired translations. [Note: some would contend that Jesus and the apostles did not quote Hebrew scriptures but rather a so called Greek "Septuagint". But there is no record of any Septuagint existing before 250-330 AD. Jesus quoted HEBREW scriptures, not a Greek translation according to Matthew 5:17-20.]
Acts 21:40-22:21 records an inspired translation. Notice that Paul speaks in HEBREW "And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,...." BUT Luke wrote Paul's words down in the New Testament in GREEK. God used Luke to write a perfect translation of what Paul said in Hebrew.
Here is a whole list of inspired translations found within the Bible:
A.) Ge 42:18-20; cf Ge 42:23: Joseph spoke in Egyptian; his words were recorded in Scripture in Hebrew
B.) Ezra 4: A Syrian letter. The “copy” follows Ezra 4:11 in Hebrew.
C.) Ps 110:1; cf Lu 20:42-43: A Greek translation of a Hebrew Psalm.
D.) Mark 5:41: Aramaic translated into Greek.
E.) Acts 22: Paul spoke to them in Hebrew (Ac 22:2); Luke recorded it in Greek.
F.) Acts 26:14: Paul recites to Agrippa what Jesus said to him in Hebrew, and it is recorded in Greek.
G.) Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34 : From Hebrew OT text (Ps 22:1) To Aramaic (in two spellings of the same word; Eli = Eloi) Transliterated from Aramaic into Greek. Translated right inside the verses from Aramaic into Greek.
(list given by Mr. Brandon Staggs of AV1611.com)
2.) DO WE NEED ORIGINALS? Of course we do not have any of the originals of any of the various books of the Bible.
That is certainly true. However, does it matter? Must we have "originals" or has God preserved His word for all generations? This is a most important question on which the whole Bible version debate hangs. If God did not preserve His word, then the King James Only issues falls apart. But if God did preserve His word, then the King James Only belief is legitimate and can be discussed.
Before we look at what the Bible says about itself in regards to preservation, think about this: if God did not preserve His word, then the Church has been using corruptions of the word ever since the 1st century. If that use true, then we've never really had scripture, we have never really had the word of God. We have only had corrupted copies. The apostles and a few first century churches were the only ones to have have in their hands the holy scriptures--is that true?
The Church, the universal Body of all saved people (1 Cor. 12, Eph. 1-3), as well as local assemblies are suppose to be the "pillar and ground of the truth". In other words, the church is suppose to be grounded in truth (the word of God) rather than error. We are not built upon tradition of men (Col. 2:8-23), but absolute truth.
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
God instituted the local church to be the "pillar and ground of the truth", but would He do this without providing "the truth"? Certainly not. God builds churches on the proper reception of the word of God: 1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
The church was first started on the truth of the word of God as its pillar and ground, and I believe that this will also be true for the end of the church as well. In 2 Timothy 3 Paul told us what it would be like in the "last days" of the church.
2 Timothy 3 Outline:
"last days" (verse 1)
description of apostasy, people "resisting the truth" (verses 2-13)
cure for apostasy: "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (verses 14-17)
Timothy had the "holy scriptures" and those are the cure for not being deceived (verse 13).
The point being that when the church was started the scriptures were its pillar and ground and that is also said to be true in the last days of the church.
To say that God has not preserved His word for the church goes against His plan for the church. God's plan for the church is that we (as members of His body) bring forth much fruit, but you can only do that through the word of God...If we do not have the word of God, then we cannot bring forth fruit.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 15:
[1] I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[2] Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[3] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[4] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[5] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[6] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[7] If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[8] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
God specifically saved us so that we could live a life WASHED by the word of God.
Ephesians 5:
[22] Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
[23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
[24] Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
[25] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
[26] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
[27] That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
The word of God washes the church, the church does not wash the word of God. If the Bible is dirty or has blemish than it could not help someone that is also dirty and has blemish. It takes something that is WITHOUT blemish to cleanse something that has blemish (1 Pet. 1:19). "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Matthew 7:5)
Therefore the original autographs are not necessary, else God's purpose for the church was vain.
3.) "THE GREEK TEXT"? I believe that the Greek text itself is open for some debate.
There are different Greek texts. I am afraid that "the Greek text" is a very wrong statement to make. This statement implies that there is only one Greek text, but that is not the case.
There approximately 5,550 Greek manuscripts available today. These individual manuscripts can contain only one verse of scripture, or they can contain a whole New Testament. These manuscripts are mainly from two different places: Antioch, Syria and Alexandria, Egypt. These manuscripts are DISTINCT to their region of origin. The Alexandrian manuscripts are very few in number, there are only about 40 of them in existence and they are in good condition. These manuscripts also tend to be older (330+ AD) in comparison to Antioch manuscripts (500+ AD). However, the readings of the Antioch manuscripts are also the predominate readings found in the writings of early "church fathers" and the early Latin and Syriac translations (150+ AD). The Alexandrian manuscripts have 5,000+ less words in there New Testaments and the oldest and best of these Alexandrian codices contain apocryphal books in them, such as the Shepherd of Hermes and the Epistle of Barnabas.
From these manuscripts men make what are called "Greek Texts". A Greek Text is a compilation of readings from the Greek manuscripts which form the New Testament. Some Greek texts are based on ANTIOCH manuscripts and some are based on ALEXANDRIAN manuscripts. These New Testaments are far from identical. [Therefore, if you have a English translation of the Antioch manuscripts you cannot compare it with a Greek text formed from the Alexandrian manuscripts.] There are over 70 different Greek Texts and they are all different!
"The Greek Text" is not a good term to use. It can be deceiving to use that phrase around those who do not know all of the above information.
4.) NO PROMISE OF PRESERVATION? No where in the Bible, or anywhere else, does God promise to guide a group of human (and therefore imperfect) translators to come up with a perfect translation.
That is true in a sense, God does not name who He will or won't use to preserve His words, but He did promise to preserve His words perfectly.
Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
Isaiah 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
Isaiah 40:7-8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Psalms 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Psalms 100:5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.
Psalms 117:2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.
[John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.]
Isaiah 55:10-11 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Isaiah 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Matthew 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Psalms 119:89-91 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth. They continue this day according to thine ordinances: for all are thy servants.
God promised to preserve His words and He promised that they would remain inspired. They "LIVETH and ABIDETH forever". A copy of scripture is still "holy" and "given by inspiration of God" according to 2 Timothy 3:15-17. Paul called the scripture "HOLY" (Rom. 1:2, 2 Tim. 3:15) even though all he had were copies.
God is the preserver, not man: The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Ps. 12:6-7) God only uses man as an instrument. God does promise to do holy/perfect/righteous deeds THROUGH HIS PEOPLE, even though they are fallible (Phil. 1:6).
People being fallible is not the issue. The issue is did God promise to preserve His words. Jesus said that man would live by EVERY WORD OF GOD.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
5.) INFALLIBLE TRANSLATIONS? Therefore, we can argue over the relative merits of the various English translations such as the NIV, KJV, NRSV, NKJV or any other version, but I do not buy the idea that any translation is infallible
But something MUST be infallible.Whether it be in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, or English, the word of God IS somewhere on the earth WITHOUT error. If it is not the King James Bible, than it must be some other version, text, manuscript, or combination of manuscripts.
Go back to point number 1 and you will see that inspired and infallible translations do exist. That IS how God has always worked beginning with the book of Genesis.
The question is: what do you believe is infallible? That is the issue. Absolute truth. Anyone can profess to believe in the inspired/infallible original autographs, but that is not such a bold statement if you do not believe that those words are still around today. There is nothing SURE for you to defend. What really gets you in trouble is to believe the Book in your hand is inspired and infallible.
6.) STRAIGHT TO THE GREEK? I wanted to learn Greek for myself so that I could go straight to the Greek and not rely on any one translation...
That is good, if you believe that a particular Greek text is infallible. However, Greek Texts are still only compilations made by man of select readings from Greek manuscripts, and those Greek manuscripts are still only human made copies. Therefore we do not have any options that do not involve man as being the instrument. Again, I believe that the issue comes down to divine preservation. God said that HE would do the preserving (Ps. 12:7), we just have to identify and believe those words.
7.) COMPARING THE TRANSLATIONS? ...or so that I would at least be able to compare the various translations with each other from Greek.
That is also good. We were told to "prove all thing" and "hold fast to that which is good" (1 Thes. 5:21). However, just keep in mind that the King James Bible does not come from the Alexandrian based manuscripts and therefore is not subject to such Greek Texts. For example, it would not make a lot of sense to compare the KJB with the Nestle/Aland 27th edition Greek New Testament because they are not related. It is also important to note that the King James Bible is not a direct translation. The KJB comes from "the original tongues and with former translations diligently compared and revised". The KJB is based on former English translations, German/Spanish/French/Latin translations, and Hebrew/Greek texts.
8.) HOSS'S BELIEF IN THE KJB? You seem to believe a step beyond me, though. Not only do you think the KJV is the best available version, you seem to think that it is a perfect and infallible translation.
That is what I believe. The King James Bible is the inspired and preserved word of God in English. This belief is based on the following:
1.) The promise of divine preservation of "ever word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" (Josh. 1:8, Isa. 30:8, 40:8, 55:10-11, 59:21, Ps. 12:6-7, 100:5, 117:2, 119:89-91, Matt. 4:4, 5:17-18, 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 4:4, 21:33, John 10:35, 1 Pet. 1:23-25).
2.) God's use of the King James Bible and the sources from which it was compiled. God used these sources for centuries while the Alexandrian manuscripts were undiscovered. There is no evidence that any of the Alexandrian manuscripts were heavily used. It makes sense for the readings that the church has been using over the centuries are the preserved ones. "Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Eph. 5:25-27)
3.) The King James Bible clearly stands out above the other English translations. The modern versions omit up to 50,000 words, 16 whole verses, and add footnotes that say 20-30 more verses do not belong. There are dozens more verses that are changed in a negative manner.
9.) WHY DO KJB ONLY BELIEVERS LEARN GREEK? If you believe that the KJV is infallible, why would you want to learn Greek, or read Greek, or compare translations? You already have the perfect one. Why you would be interested in any Greek word studies or comparison of verses across translations.
A lot of KJB believers learn Greek. The man who is often referred to as the "spear head of the King James Only Movement" (White, KJVO Controversy) knows and taught Hebrew/Greek in his college (Dr. Peter Ruckman). Most every KJB believing Bible college teaches Greek. Such knowledge can be used to defend the KJB. However, most KJB believers are not really interested in learning the Greek language, just manuscript evidence.
Comparison of translations is one of the reasons why we believe the King James Bible is infallible. The KJB is stronger on the Deity of Christ, Trinity, eternal security, resurrection of Christ, and the blood atonement of Christ.
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