Hoss vs Davis: "in Christ"

Below is an article written by a brother in the UK (John Davis). The brother pretends to be spiritual and all knowing. I have documented evidence where he professes to know what other people think and he professes to know the intents of people's heart and mind. That is, he professes to be “the word of God” of Hebrews 4:12!

For example:

“this arrogant young kid....is NOT interested in saving souls, he’s NOT interested in trying to stop people from going to Hell & he has no love for the lost ”

“That is why NONE OF THEM achieve anything for the Lord!”

“I haven’t met one yet who has a deep relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ – sure they know ‘about’ God & the Bible, but not one of them really ‘KNOWS’ God.”

“It is not REVEALED to the prophets in the OT that THE EATING OF PORK & LOBSTER WOULD BE LEGITIMATE, but what fool would think that Col 2v14 was not in EFFECT until Peter found it out in Acts 10??? (It was in effect after the crucifixion!) ”

And there are many more. John Davis claims to know for a fact who knows God and who doesn't. Ain't that something! John Davis does not know any such thing, he is simply pretending to be spiritual and all knowing. Even the Galatians (who were getting mixed up in false gospel) were said to “know God” (Gal. 4:9). Does Mr. Davis want us to believe that those of us who do not accept Acts 2 Dispensationalism do not really “know God” because of such a minor thing as that? Mr. Davis is apparently quite a nitpicker.

Anyone who is saved knows God as far as their standing in Christ concerned (Gal. 4:9), but knowing Christ practically speaking in our walk here on earth is an on going process. Paul said. “That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death” (Phil. 3:10). Mr. Davis's statement simply does not make sense nor is it Biblical.

John Davis says that no person who believes that the Body of Christ began with Paul has ever achieved anything for the Lord. That is quite absurd. How about Dr. Dave Reese from Milbrook, Alabama? He has his own Open Bible College, has written many books, and has been on the mission field in rural areas of China and the Philippines for 20+ years. Does Mr. Davis believe that Dr. Reese has never achieved anything for the Lord? Or how about Pastor Gilbert Schellin of Faith Bible Church in Pratville, Alabama? I was at his church this past weekend and two people got saved from him giving the gospel that Saturday. As a matter of fact, there are many people that have gotten saved and learnt the Bible from the so called “hyper-dispensationalists”.

In fact, the “hyper-dispensationalists” give a CLEARER gospel presentation than any Acts 2 Dispensationalist that I have ever met. I have seen a lot of Acts 2 Dispensationalists teach that a person must confess Christ before men at an altar in order to be saved. I have heard many of them say that you must say a “sinner's prayer” that THEY INVENTED (not found in the Bible) in order to be saved. This makes many Acts 2 Dispensationalists “accursed” according to Galatians 1:6-12.

Mr. Davis simply enjoys slandering and lying about his fellow brothers in Christ without a cause.

As for his comments on Acts 10 and the subject of Law dietary rules, Mr. Davis is completely wrong. The fact is that Peter could NOT eat pork before Acts 9, it was forbidden. Here is the scripture to prove it:

Jeremiah 31:

[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

(GOD”S PLAN FOR ISRAEL UNDER THE NEW COVENANT IS FOR THEM TO KEEP THE LAW PERFECTLY AND FOR THE LAW TO GO FORTH OUT OF ZION—Jeremiah 30-33, Ezekiel 36, Micah 4:1-4, Isaiah 2:1-4)

Matthew 5:

[17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

(THOSE UNDER THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM WERE COMMANDED TO TEACH THE LAW)

Matthew 19:

[16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

(THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM REQUIRED KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS)

Matthew 23:

[1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
[2] Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
[3] All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

(CHRIST COMMANDED THE OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW)

Matthew 24:

[20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

(THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM REQUIRED OBEDIENCE TO THE SABBATH KEEPING LAWS)

Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

(“WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU” INCLUDES HIS COMMANDMENTS TO FOLLOW THE LAW)

And Peter (filled with the Holy Ghost) continued to observe the Law just as Christ and the New Covenant demanded. Mr. Davis apparently believes that the Holy Ghost led Peter astray in continuing the temple worship and dietary laws. [also note in Acts 10:28 that Peter still considered it “UNLAWFUL” to go into the house of an uncircumcised Gentile]

Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Acts 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.

Acts 10:

[9] On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
[10] And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
[11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
[12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
[13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
[14] But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
[15] And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
[16] This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
[17] Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

Acts 22:12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,

Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

The dispensation of the revelation of not being under the Law but under Grace (Rom. 6:14, Eph. 3:2) was given to Paul in Acts 9. Christ had not dispensed that command to anyone before Paul and therefore they were still under the Law as Christ commanded.

Mr. Davis is mistaken. Colossians 2:14 was not in effect or dispensed before Paul. The dispensation/revelation that Christ gave the 12 apostles was the continuation of the Law under the New Covenant given to Israel (which I proved from the scriptures). Peter was filled and controlled by the Holy Ghost (Ezek. 36:27) while obeying the Law. Peter was obeying the Tribulation doctrine that Christ gave him as found in the OT which included Sabbath observance (Matt. 24:20).

Another statement of Mr. Davis's from his latest news letter: “The ‘Stamites’ stumbling block is that a thing cannot exist before it is REVEALED! ” No “stamite” teaches that—it is simply a straw man argument that means absolutely nothing.

Now let's get into Mr. Davis's article written against sound doctrine concerning the beginning of the church which is the Body of Christ. Here is the article:

The Immaturity of the Hyper-Dispensationalists aka ‘Hyper-Diapers!’ (HD)

A very immature Hyper-Diaper Christian from the US emailed me the following…

HD - I don't suppose you are pre-trib rapture are you? (as in the Body of Christ does not go through any of the time of Jacob's trouble?) (Now there is a motive behind the asking of that question, & you’ll see that he proves to be totally puffed up with pride & arrogance sadly i.e. very unlike the Lord Jesus! He also drops himself in it!!!)

MY reply… Yes I am pre trib!

HD - Rev 14v13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Ha ha Mr. Davis, now I have you trapped. Now you must admit that you can be "in" the Lord without being "in" His body. I'm sorry, but you can't imagine how funny I think this is. (There you have it, ‘that’ made his day! This is the kind of idiot that is doing NOTHING with his life except wasting valuable time!)

Sadly this arrogant young kid who WRONGLY divides the word of truth (the nut thinks the church started with Paul in Acts 9) is NOT interested in saving souls, he’s NOT interested in trying to stop people from going to Hell & he has no love for the lost as the Lord does, he just wants to play semantics & cause division & discord among the brethren… something that God HATES!!! Prov 6v16-19 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, AND HE THAT SOWETH DISCORD AMONG BRETHREN. Now sadly this is the ‘product,’ the type of Christian that a Hyper-Diaper ‘church’ produces! That is why NONE OF THEM achieve anything for the Lord! They are just an arrogant bunch of Bible ‘perverters’ who cowardly hide behind their computer screens rather than getting out where the sinners are! This kid who wrote the email has potential to do something for the Lord, but sadly he’s wasting his life ‘nit-picking’ & accusing Christians of things they did not say… what a waste of a life! The Lord is NOT happy with such a useless life, & he will have to give an account of his life to Him!!! (Terrible, tragic & VERY sad! The kid will have many regrets when he stands in front of Jesus Christ, & so will those who taught him such heresies!)

To top it off, the kid can’t see the difference between being IN Christ PRE-Rapture & being ‘in Christ’ POST-Rapture which includes ‘works!!!’ Like I keep saying, not all the clowns are in the circus, some are on my mailing list!

Rev 14v13 does not refer to anything PRE-Rapture. No-one is in the Lord now unless he is in the Body of Christ, by means of having the Spirit of Christ Who puts you in the Body of Christ, Rom 8v9, 1 Cor 12v13. Those “in the Lord” in Rev 14v13 are those described in Rev 14v12 “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus” i.e. Tribulation saints (Mat 24v13) who suffer martyrdom, Rev 6v9-11. They are “in the Lord” in the sense of not being in the beast’s kingdom by means of his implanted mark, Rev 14v9-11, 16v10. The poor old Hyper-Diapers are just so wrapped up in their own little cult that they just can’t see out of their church windows into the real world! The world is going to Hell & they want to argue among the ranks about ‘when’ the Body of Christ ‘started!’ Like I said, they are idiots, with a capital ‘I’.

PS - Nut-bar-hyper-diapers think that being ‘in Christ’ before Acts 9 and Paul’s conversion, is somehow distinct from being in Christ from Paul’s conversion onwards! They do this in order to try to get around the hyper-dispensational nemesis Rom 16v7 “Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.” This of course is stupid because Paul in Rom 16v7 obviously draws no such distinction! Hyper-diapers think that Rev 14v13 is an argument for this! I guess they have also opted for the error of a mid-tribulation rapture for Church Age saints, otherwise under their heresy, the saints in Rev 14v13 would still be in the ‘Body!’ As previously stated above, those in the Lord in Rev 14v13 are those that Rev 14v12 refers to who are not in the beast’s kingdom, Rev 16v10 because they refuse to take the mark, Rev 14v9-11 and many of them get martyred, Rev 6v9-11, which is the sense of Rev 14v13. A further point can be made in that those in the Lord in Rev 14v13 are clearly those in the Lord’s ‘kingdom’ that comes into effect in the End Times after the Rapture of Church Age saints. “And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night” Rev 12v10. That is, in the End Times of great tribulation, the Tribulation saint of Rev 14v12-13 has absconded from the beast’s kingdom and is therefore “in the Lord” in the sense of being a subject of “the kingdom of our God” as it is come then and under “the power of his Christ” Mat 28v18. Hyper-diapers are always WRONGLY dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2v15) & wresting the scriptures to their own destruction! 2 Pet 3v16. Hyper-Diapers have a disease called ‘Paulitus’ & it can only be cured if they quit mixing with other infected men like Bullinger, Stam, O’Hare, etc. We’ve had a number of Hyper-Diapers come off our mailing list because they can’t take the ‘strong meat’ of the word of God! --John Davis, Time For Truth! New letter.

“A very immature” person is an understatement—Mr. Davis is referring to a 17 year old high school student.

“Wasting time” is an over statement. That email exchange didn't take 2 minutes worth of time. When I wrote that email to Mr. Davis I put smiley faces in it because I was just messing with him as a fellow brother in Christ. Mr. Davis and I disagree on a few issues and I just sent him that as a joke. Why did that upset Mr. Davis? It is certainly not something to call me an “idiot” over. Why is Mr. Davis so thin-skinned? There was no “arrogance” or “puffed up” attitude in my email, anyone could see it was a joke.

He saw the smiley faces, what is there for Mr. Davis to get so upset about? It is more than likely that Mr. Davis got upset because he knows that Revelation 14:13 refutes his false teaching. There is no other reason why Mr. Davis would get so upset over a sarcastic comment sent to him in good humor.

I will answer Mr. Davis's charges against Mid-Acts Right Division:

1. “the nut thinks the church started with Paul in Acts 9”

How does that make me a nut? I thought you said that the beginning of the Body of Christ was a “nit picking” issue i.e. not a very big deal.

By your own admission, the doctrine and revelation of the Body of Christ was FIRST given to Paul (Eph. 3:1-9, Col. 1:24-28, Rom. 16:25, 1 Cor. 4:1) and so that automatically makes Acts 9 the beginning of the Body FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES. I could put $1,000,000 in your bank account and not tell you about it....it exists, but until you KNOW it is there, for all practical purposes that money did not show up until you knew about it.

Here are the scriptural proofs that the Body of Christ began with Paul in Acts 9 technically and not just practically.

A.) Paul was the “wise master builder” that “laid the foundation” of “God's building” (1 Cor. 3:9-11) which is the Body of Christ (Eph. 2:19-22).

B.) Paul obtained mercy and all long suffering “FIRST” “for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him [Christ] to life everlasting” (1 Tim. 1:16). [not the 12 apostles in Acts 2]

C.) You get into the Body of Christ “by the gospel” (Eph. 3:6). The gospel that Paul was referring to was the “gospel of the grace of God” committed to him in Acts 9 by the revelation of Jesus Christ (Acts 20:24, 1 Cor. 15:1-4, Gal. 1:11-12, 2:2, 2:7-8). Therefore nobody could get into the Body of Christ until Acts 9 when the gospel of grace was given.

D.) Those in Acts 2-3 had to receive the Holy Spirit through the laying on of the apostle's hands and being water baptized (Acts 2, Acts 8), but that is not true in regards to the Body of Christ. You get into the Body of Christ through faith alone (Eph. 1:12-14, 2:8-9).

E.) Those in Acts 3 were waiting for their sins to be blotted out at the 2^nd Coming of Christ (Acts 3:19-26), but members of the Body of Christ are instantly have their sins taken away by spiritual circumcision (Col. 2:10-13).

When two scriptures CONTRADICT, you must “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15). The doctrines of the Body of Christ such as Paul's gospel, eternal security, and instantaneous blotting out of sins are distinct for the Body of Christ. If you are reading about doctrines that contradict those (such as Acts 1-8) then you are not reading about members of the Body of Christ! That is plain and simple.

As for this “in Christ” confusion put forth by Mr. Davis, the definitions are plain and simple.

People were in Christ from Matthew 3 and they will be in Christ on up through the Millennium, because the book of John teaches that anyone who abides in Christ doctrine living by His word doing the will of God is “in Christ” and Christ “in him”.

John 4:

[31] In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.
[32] But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.
[33] Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
[34] Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

John 6:

[55] For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

[56] He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
[57] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

John 15:

[1] I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[2] Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
[3] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[4] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[5] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[6] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

That is the first definition of being “in Christ”.

Now here is the second definition:

1 Corinthians 6:

[15] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13+18 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit....But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

The second definition of being “in Christ” is being in His Body—joined to Him by being baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ. You become “one spirit” with Him and His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension become yours also (Rom. 6:3-4, Col. 2:12, Eph. 2:6, Col. 3:1).

Mr. Davis didn't give either one of those defintions—instead he invented his own definition by talking a lot about the mark of the beast and Christ's kingdom.

2. “is NOT interested in saving souls, he’s NOT interested in trying to stop people from going to Hell & he has no love for the lost as the Lord does”

Actually you do not know anything about my interest in lost souls. I give gospel tracts when I have the opportunity and I try to make opportunities when I can. I have given them to folks at a fencing class and also at the college campus. Mr. Davis, you do not know me. You live on another continent and have never seen me before in your life—so please, don't pretend like you know the thoughts and intents of my heart. Quit pretending to be the word of God! (Heb. 4:12)

3. “They are just an arrogant bunch of Bible ‘perverters’ ”

Most “hyper dispensationalists” are King James Bible believers (including myself) and so we do not “pervert” the Bible. You are on my blog's recommended sites list because of your material on the KJB.

4. “sadly he’s wasting his life ‘nit-picking’ & accusing Christians of things they did not say… what a waste of a life! The Lord is NOT happy with such a useless life,”

I wasted my life in a 2 minute email exchange? Not to mention that time you kept sending emails on my email list calling people “morons” “idiots” etc. when everybody told you to stop. (and you still continued doing it for a couple of days) I waste less time than you.

5. “To top it off, the kid can’t see the difference between being IN Christ PRE-Rapture & being ‘in Christ’ POST-Rapture which includes ‘works!!!”

Actually, I am the one that gave the Biblical definitions of being “in Christ”. You invented your own without supplying the verses. I am very strong on the Pre-Trib rapture.

Meanwhile, you acknowledge that in the Tribulation that people are “in Christ” but not “in the Body of Christ” because of the doctrinal differences in the dispensations. But that is exactly what I was saying. Those in Acts 1-8 were teaching Tribulation doctrine and works salvation—therefore they were “in Christ” in the same sense as Revelation 14:13 and not 1 Corinthians 12:12-18.

6. “No-one is in the Lord now unless he is in the Body of Christ, by means of having the Spirit of Christ”

You do not get into Christ by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Being baptized into Christ by the Spirit and the Spirit indwelling the believer are separate actions (if words mean anything).

7. “Tribulation saints (Mat 24v13) who suffer martyrdom, Rev 6v9-11. They are “in the Lord” in the sense of not being in the beast’s kingdom by means of his implanted mark, Rev 14v9-11, 16v10.”

No, they are “in the Lord” in the sense that they are keeping Christ commandments and obeying the word of God as defined in John 4, 6, and 15. (Rev. 12, 14, 20:4, etc.)