I once looked into the Acts 28 position, then I realized how many errors it has in it. Since then I have been a staunch anti-Acts 28 position proponent as it leads people into such strange doctrines such as no-hell, two bodies of Christ, polygamy, universal salvation, etc.
When I first found out about Brian Kelson and his Acts 28 ministry I asked him 4 questions about the position as I did not really know anything about it. I thought some of the points the Acts 28 position made seemed valid--until I did my homework.
Now that I have done extensive study into the possibility of the validity of the Acts 28 position and know that it is very wrong I will go through brother Kelson's answer and point out the error of the Acts 28 teaching. This is an attack on the Acts 28 position, not brother Kelson.
His words in red, mine in green. --Eli "Hoss" Caldwell
1. Do "Acts 28ers" believe in hell? (as in eternal torment, fire, etc.)
2. What is Romans 12:4-5 talking about as far as a "one body in Christ". (if not THE body of Christ)
3. What is the gospel, if not 1 Cor. 15:1-4?
4. What is the "rapture" of the body of Christ if not 1 Thes. 4 or 1 Cor. 15?
I realize redemption "through his blood" [Christ] is found in the non-Acts epistles and also a "rapture" is hinted at, but with my current "Mid Acts" mindset I consider these things not that fully declared in Paul's non-Acts epistles.
(Those were my questions)
Before addressing each question, let us remember that the truth has been a long time in the unveiling. The reformers brought much dogma across from the Catholic Church and only as students of the word noticed the things differing did the present truth begin to come forth. As we both know, learning includes unlearning and this is the most difficult step for all of us to take. How hard is it to speak to our Christian friends of Pauline doctrines when they are so locked into systems which are gospel based? Is it any wonder they have long singing worship type services where many of the songs are Old Testament themes. As you know, they mix prophesy and promise and every once in a while they might sing about the current truth. They all believe they are going to heaven and think they can find that in the Old Testament and the Gospels. We know the only way they will ever find it there, is to read the latter letters of Paul and then drag that truth back where it does not belong. We must not take Ephesians and Colossian's truth and drag it back anywhere, it belongs to today, not in the things of the past. (There brother Kelson wrote a whole paragraph to get me "warmed up" to the idea of unveiling an entirely new doctrine. He tries to slip the Acts 28 position into the game by claiming "recovering knowledge".)
It is my view that MidActs is part of this progression of truth. In that circle Paul is elevated for the apostleship he was given and great gains have been made in showing forth the mystery of Ephesians. (True. M.A.D. is part of a progression back to the Biblical truth that the Catholic church distorted and hindered from coming into light.)
So now we turn to your questions and I'll put them first then give an answer with some further reading links for your consideration.
1. Do "Acts 28ers" believe in hell? (as in eternal torment, fire, etc.)
The first thing I need to say is this, Acts 28 is not defined by any view as regards hell. Some Acts28ers might believe in eternal torment and fire, some may not. So please don’t' think that turning to Acts 28 as the dividing line, makes it necessary for anyone to hold any particular view on hell. (Perhaps this is true, but for some reason every Acts 28er I know of throws out hell. Perhaps because Chuck Belch, the founder of Acts 28, believed that. [Charles Welch])
Hell is not an easy subject to address. In the New Testament there are three hells. Now I know this sounds crazy, but it is the truth. (You're right it does sound crazy. You're wrong, it is not the truth.)
Hell 1. The Lord spoke about ghehennah (the valley of Hinnom, 2Kings 23:10, 2Chron.28:3, Jer.7:31-32), a valley the Jews knew about and into which the bodies of those who sin against the Lord would be thrown as per Is.66 and Mark 9:44-49. This hell is near Jerusalem and we can go there without being burnt at this time, but when the Lord reigns on the earth, then that valley will be the rubbish dump the prophet spoke about. (Try my post on hell http://av1611studyblog.blogspot.com/2014/05/hell-turn-or-burn-as-they-say.html Hell is an eternal garbage dump for lost souls. That is what the Bible teaches as seen in my post.
Hell 2 In 2Pet.2:4, Peter writes about a hell into which the angels who sinned have been cast. This word is tartaroo, a certain place we don't fully know about. (Oh really? Well ain't you smart? Hell is hell, I don't care about this tartar sauce stuff.)
Hell 3. The other hell is the grave. Rev.20:14.
But here is the important question. Which hell did PAUL write about? If we claim to follow our Apostle, then shouldn't we follow him in this truth too? Please search for the word HELL in Paul. If we use the KJV then perhaps we might be surprised when NOT ONE occurrence of hell can be found in Paul. Likewise, while searching through Paul we can NOT find ONE scripture where Paul writes the wages of sin is conscious eternal punishment in hell. For if conscious eternal punishment is the wages of sin, then we are not saved for then Christ should be still consciously eternally punished BUT Christ died for our sin and sins and if that was
sufficient for our God then....??????????????
1Cor.15:55 is the only hell Paul wrote about, which is the grave as in Rev.20:14.
(That is a pack of lies. I don't care if Paul mentions "hell" of not. Why should he mention it? Read my post on hell and look at these references.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You do not think Paul taught everlasting judgement do ya?
Romans 1:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 2:
[2] But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
[3] And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
[5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[16] In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 3:
[4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
[5] But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
[6] God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
[7] For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
[8] And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
[9] What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(and don't forget Rom. 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. )
That sound like heaven to you chump? How about this one.
Hebrews 9:
[25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
The Bible speaks for itself.
"But Paul did not mention the word hell"......well did that sound like heaven to you? Go pass out the Watch Tower. What a joke.
Here is a list of articles to examine in the matter of hell. This will answer what I believe, but remember, this is not an entry question into the Acts 28 position, hell is a subject all Christians from any persuasion should examine. On this link look at all the articles listed under THE DESTINY OF MAN www.bibleunderstanding.com/biblestudies.htm
Next question.
2. What is Romans 12:4-5 talking about as far as a "one body in Christ" (if not THE body of Christ)
Every text has a context brother and here is the passage; Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; Rom 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.
Like 1Cor.12, the subject here is the supernatural gifts, not the relationship between Christ and our church today. They, each believer during the Acts period, were a part of that body which was made complete by each believer. The body of Corinthians and Romans was made up in total by the believers, NOT by the believers and Christ as per Ephesians. This is clearly said by Paul's analogy of the ear, eye and foot of 1Cor.12. Nowhere is Christ a part of this body. THEY, at that time, were the complete body from head to toe and that body was a picture of the harmonious function of those gifts given during the Acts period. Look at what Paul says in Romans 12;
(That is.....terrible. What the heck are you talking about? Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6:15 that they were "members of Christ" and that they belonged to Christ and then in 1 Corinthians 12:27 he said that they were the body of Christ......who do you think was the HEAD? Does Christ have a body and members that he is NOT the Head of? I'm afraid you are not making sense.)
Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
They were members of each other. How can Paul write of "the body of Christ" in 1Cor.12:27, then change to "one body IN CHRIST" in Roms.12? (What is your point? Are you saying that we are not one body in Christ?) Romans was written after Corinthians. Here's the thing, what did Paul write of Christ in Romans? The answer is forthcoming in chapter 15; Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: Rom 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
If Christ was a minister of the circumcision in Romans, how can that possible describe him as Head of our calling? It can't. I have much more to say but here are some of my audios on this subject; please listen to
4 every audio listed beside number 6 on this link www.acts28.net/audios.html
(That was royally dumb. The text says "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:". How does Paul saying that Christ's earthly ministry was to the Jews mean that Romans is not written to us? Paul said Christ WAS a minister of the circumcision--past tense. And the Romans were not the circumcision. Your not making sense brother.
3. What is the gospel, if not 1 Cor. 15:1-4?
This morning I posted on face book and this is what I posted;
1. When Paul wrote Romans 3:19-25, he declared the redemption and righteousness of God upon all those who believe in our Lord. This is a continuing truth; it remains a constant truth through all dispensations. Let’s test things differing in Romans. 2. BUT when Paul referred to the Lord later in Romans as to the HOPE those believers at that time held, he said this of the Lord; Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: Rom 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. Psa. 18:49 Rom 15:10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. Deut. 32:43 Rom 15:11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. Psa. 117:1 Rom 15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust. Isa. 11:1, 10 Rom 15:13 Now the God of (THIS) hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
(Notice how Mr. Kelson inserted "(THIS)" into Romans 15:13 to make the text say something different. If we can insert whatever we want into a passage of scripture than we can believe whatever we want because we would be the authority. Meanwhile I still believe Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
How plain can this be? (Not very.) The Romans were redeemed, justified in Christ BUT the hope they held was the Promises made to the Fathers those very promises Christ had confirmed in his earthly ministry; their hope was the OT hope. (Only in the the BKV, Brian Kelson Version.) They were not destined for the heavenly places. This is also the OT hope proclaimed in Paul's gospel in Acts 13:32 where glad tidings is the word gospel. I am aware of how some Mid Acts will claim Roms.15 is only written to some of the believers during Acts and not the body believers, but this cannot be true, for Paul includes himself when he writes;
Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
WE, includes Paul back in Romans in the Acts period and the hope Paul held was the things written aforetime. (You do not know what your hope is....http://av1611studyblog.blogspot.com/2014/06/star-wars-fellowinheritance-with-saints.html )
Today, we are redeemed and justified in the same finished work of our Lord BUT we have a new hope, we have been raised and seated in the above heavens which Moses and the prophets knew nothing about. (We are in heavenly places because we are "in Christ" according to Ephesians 2:6. The hope of Acts is the mystery rapture of the body of Christ that is nowhere in the OT. The dwelling place of the body of Christ is being with Christ, that will be the New Jerusalem. Read my post, even your precious post-Acts epistle teaches it. May the force be with you!)
Can we see the difference? (No.) The gospel of life in Christ is continuing, it doesn't change but the dispensation changed at Acts 28. Only by faith in our Lord, believing into Him do we have redemption, justification and eternal life, but WHERE will we enjoy eternal life? Not the same place as the Roman believers during Acts that's for sure.
So yes, 1Cor.15:1-4 would be the gospel of life in Christ, the one that remains across Acts 28 BUT let's look at the resurrection at the end of the chapter. If this is the body of Christ in 1Cor.12 and 15 we have a major problem. (Only in your mind.)
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Is.25:8 1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? Hos.13:14.
Notice Paul is quoting the Old Testament in verse 54 and 55. The resurrection Paul is writing about is the resurrection of Isaiah and Hosea. Isaiah and Hosea know nothing of any resurrection to the heavenly places. The resurrection of 1Cor.15 is to the earth. Please read these OT passages. (Blah, blah, blah. Paul told you that this rapture was a "mystery" given "by the word of the Lord" (1 Corinthians 15:51, 1 Thessalonians 4:15) and you are trying to tell me that it is found in the OT just because he quoted the "saying" about victory over death? Wow.)
So 1Cor.15 is like the Romans piece I posted this morning on face book. Both Romans and Corinthians have continuing truths in Paul, that glorious truth that Christ is the only sin bearer through whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins, and justification BUT Romans and Corinthians were written BEFORE The Mystery of Ephesians was revealed to him. (Yep, I believe you.)
For further reading, I recommend my book The Appearing, sorry brother for this commercial but it's only $10 for the pdf and the $10 goes towards my little ministry to the Lord; www.acts28.net/publications.html
4. What is the "rapture" of the body of Christ if not 1 Thes. 4 or 1 Cor. 15?
We have already looked at the resurrection in 1Cor.15 which is to the earth. The Trumpet of Corinthians, Thessalonians, Matt.24 and Revelation is the same last Trumpet of the 7. (Proof? You're saying the mystery rapture of 1 Corinthians and 1 Thessalonians 4 is actually not a mystery? Proof?)
The rapture is the hope of the believers during Acts, it is not the hope of the church which is His Body. The "rapture" is purely Old Testament (What a quack.). Again, you will find some clues to this on the link above, www.acts28.net/publications.html
Our hope is among those things which were hidden in God and the rapture sure isn't anything hidden in God, we find it in Exodus 19 (and 24:9-11) (That is a big, fat LOL). How can something belonging to Israels typical salvation have anything to do with our calling hidden in God when Israel was delivered from Egypt?
I realize redemption "through his blood" [Christ] is found in the non-Acts epistles and also a "rapture" is hinted at, but with my current "Mid Acts" mindset I consider these things not that fully declared in Paul's non-Acts epistles. (That was all wild claims by you. No proof. However, Paul said the rapture was a "mystery" given "by the word of the Lord". Have fun with that.)
Here is a booklet which shows the post Acts letters of Paul and the continuing eternal truths of redemption; Fundamentals and The Mystery. Find it here; www.acts28.net/studies.html
The post Acts letters of Paul don’t speak about the coming of the Lord, the rapture or even the apocalypse; Revelation. These things alone indicate a great change after the Acts period letters were written. This change took place at Acts 28. Here is a chart showing the grouping of Paul’s letters around Acts 28; www.acts28.net/whatisacts28.html
The “rapture” was the hope of the Acts period. That hope was postponed at the close of the book of Acts after which The Mystery was revealed to Paul.
I know you are considering some things not brought out from the mid acts teachings, but if the Berean spirit I believe prompted you to write, so I believe it will help you to search and see if these things be so. (AMEN! Praise de lawd! I have searched the scriptures and I found out that it ain't so! Amen!)
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