Friday, May 30, 2014

Hoss's reply to Herb Evans on baptism.

NOTE: This message will complete refute everything you have said and make you go crying back to your brider buddies.  
You will not be able to answer this message and you will more than likely convert to a Bible student who rightly divides the word of truth. As far as I am concerned this will be my last response to the debate.

Ok, I don't know how you got the idea about tongue talking and all that.

There is no water in Romans 6, Galatians 3, Ephesians 4, or Colossians 2. That is a baptism "by the Spirit" according to 1 Cor. 12:13.

There is no verse that says water baptism pictures the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ nor is there a verse that proves water baptism was even by immersion. Yes, it says the two men would go into the water, but as far as that goes the historical accounts say that pouring and sprinkling were done with both people standing in water. I am not saying it was not by immersion, I am just saying that it cannot be rightly proven.

As for that cambellite interpretation of Romans 6, what in the world are you talking about? When we believe the gospel by faith, the Spirit of Christ indwells us making us joined unto the Lord, making us members of Christ, and therefore Christ is living in us......that is what putting on Christ is. How could you thing water buptism has anything to do with that?

Galatians 2:20  I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 3:[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?[26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

1 Corinthians 6:[15] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. [16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. [18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body. [19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? [20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 12:[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 2:[6] As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: [10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Colossians 3:[1] If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.[2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Romans 6:[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?[3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.[7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.[8] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:[9] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.[10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

There was the scriptures, now here is the "rationale" as you put it. Based on Galatians 2:20, 3:1-3, and 4:6, it is scripturally sound to say that when the Spirit of Christ indwells us that Christ lives in us and that we are crucified with Christ and in the likeness of His death and resurrection. The "likeness of His death" of Romans 6 is Christ coming into us and quickening us....our spirit was "dead" but then He quickened us with His Spirit making us alive. Now that we are alive we are now dead to sins (in the likeness of His death) and so now we should live for Him and not obey the lusts of our flesh (be in the likeness of His resurrection). What does water have to do with any of that? Where do you see water in Romans 6 or Galatians 3?

Ananias was a devout man according to the law and was a kingdom gospel believer that believed that one had to get water baptized.....but notice he did not say " arise, and be baptized, and put on Christ".......noooope. Water baptism is only a "like figure" of a cleansing but it was not the actual cleansing.

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The baptism of Romans 6 makes one crucified with Christ and dead to sins, that is a baptism by the Spirit into Christ that we apparently received when we got saved....[unless your buptist brider tradition can prove otherwise]......water baptism however, DOES NOT PUT AWAY THE FILTH OF THE FLESH. You're telling me that I become crucified with Christ being made dead to sins through water baptism, but the Bible says that water baptism does not put away the filth of the flesh.....what version are you using Herb?

Baptism by the Spirit into Christ through the faith of the operation of God = crucified with Christ, buried with Christ, risen with Christ, and seated with Christ.

Baptism with water = A wet Buptist Brider.

Every head bowed, every eye closed! Does I sees a hand? Come on down to the altar why we sings Just as I Is......

Nice try Herby! Have a good weekend. --brother Hoss

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