The Gospel of the Grace of God VS Lordship Salvation

Lordship Salvationist: An anti-lordship salvationist. I hate to tell you, but the Bible clearly teaches that true saving faith, is a faith that produces obedience. That's why Paul can give a list of sins, and state that those who practice such sins aren't saved. 

Hoss: You say, "I hate to tell you, but the Bible clearly teaches that true saving faith, is a faith that produces obedience. That's why Paul can give a list of sins, and state that those who practice such sins aren't saved." That is so wrong. Very, very wrong. "Saving faith" is faith in the gospel of Christ as found in 1 Cor. 15:3-4. But living the rest of your life in attempt to serve the Lord the best you can is dependent on faith and submission to the word of God (John 17:17, Eph. 5:25-26, Ps. 119:9, etc). Saved people who never read their Bible is not going to produce very much "obedience" because they don't have the word of God in their heart and mind (Ps. 119:11). Living for the Lord is not something that just comes natural to saved person, you still have the "old man" that fights against the Holy Spirit in you (Rom. 6:6, Eph. 4:22, Col. 3:9). The believer has two natures (Gal. 5:16-25). A saved person has to "purpose in his heart" not to sin against God (Dan. 1:8).

You said "the Bible clearly teaches that true saving faith, is a faith that produces obedience". OBEDIENCE TO WHAT? The ten commandments? Lordship salvationists have a hard time deciding what you have to obey in order to prove that you're saved. Usually they pick sins that they aren't committing like adultery, murder, or drunkeness. They never pick sins like envy, lust, covetousness, etc. Lordship salvationists also can't decide how much obedience is required. Do you have to obey God 100% of the time, or just 99%? Or is between 85% and 90% enough to prove that you have "saving faith"? Lordship salvation have no mechanics for this kind of stuff, they just make it up as they go along.

We all sin everyday, so if "obedience" after faith in Christ is required then we're all in big trouble.

The Bible teaches that someone can having "saving faith" and then live the rest of his life in sin, even to the point where God kills them. In the Bible God judged believers in the flesh, but they were still SAVED when they died.

1 Corinthians 5:
[1] It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
[2] And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
[3] For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
[4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Paul said that even if a believer had produced no good service for Christ, at the judgement seat of Christ that person's works would be burnt up, BUT THEY WERE STILL SAVED

1 Corinthians 3:
[12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be SAVED; yet so as by fire.

The church of Corinth was filled with sins such as division (1 Cor. 1:10), fornication (1 Cor .5:1), heresies (1 Cor. 11:19), they were suing each other (1 Cor. 6:1-6), and some of them quit believing in the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:12). The church was so bad that Paul said they were assembling for the WORSE and not for the better (1 Cor. 11:17). Does that sound like they were "obedient"? Lordship salvationists would have accused the Corinthians of not having "saving faith" since they were not obeying. But look at what Paul says about that church:

1 Corinthians 1:
[1] Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
[2] Unto the church OF GOD which is at Corinth, to them that are SANCTIFIED IN CHRIST JESUS, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
[3] GRACE BE UNTO YOU, AND PEACE, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
[4] I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
[5] That in every thing YE ARE ENRICHED BY HIM, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
[6] Even as THE TESTIMONY OF CHRIST WAS CONFIRMED IN YOU:
[7] So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[8] Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[9] God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Regardless of whether or not a believer is faithful to God, God is still faithful to us (vs. 9). As bad as the church at Corinth was, it was still a church "of God". God sent grace and peace unto them (vs. 3). The Corinthians were not obeying God in the flesh, but their spirit was still "sanctified in Christ Jesus".

Paul NEVER gave a "list of sins" that you can commit and not be saved. Frankly you are lying. There is no such list in the Bible. What is on that list? Murder? David and Moses murdered people. Is adultery on the list? David committed adultery. How about polygamy? Solomon committed polygamy. How about denying the Lord? Peter denied the Lord. How about idolatry? John repeatedly tried to worship an angel. How about suicide? Samson took his own life. There is no sin on earth that a saved person hasn't committed.

Is this the "list" you are referring to?

1 Corinthians 6:
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Well the Corinthians were committing those sins (1 Cor. 5:1-5, 11:21). You better look at verse 11, the Corinthians were WASHED, SANCTIFIED, and JUSTIFIED in Christ just as 1 Corinthians 1:1-9 stated.

[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The hyper calvinists claim to believe in salvation by grace and eternal security, but they really believe in hard core WORKS salvation and judging someone's salvation based on their WORKS. What a mess.

--Eli "Hoss" Caldwell