Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine
heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus
Christ is the Son of God.
Most modern versions and modern scholars make the claim that Acts 8:37 should not be in the word of God.
The reasons for them thinking the verse should not be there are as following:
1.) Lack of manuscript evidence.
2.) Believing that Jesus Christ was the Son of God is not enough to get baptized.
On that basis it is deleted from the NIV, Living Bible, ESV, NASV, etc.
First of all, in regards to I will plainly state that Acts 8:37 is a minority reading.......but it is inspired scripture. "Minority reading" simply means that most Greek manuscripts do not have the verse included in them. However, both Iranaeus and Cyprian quoted the verse in the 2nd century A.D. (before the Vulgate). Also, there are around 60 manuscripts that do contain the verse (including Codex Glacier). Also, though it was not put in any addition of his NT editions other than in a marginal note, Erasmus was quoted to have said that he believed it had been omitted from scripture by "careless scholars".
Now for the accusation, "believing that Jesus Christ was the Son of God is not enough to get baptized". I believe that this is the only reason for one to be water baptized. The implication in the accusation is that one must believe something about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. However, there is no verse in any edition of any bible in any language that says that water baptism has anything to do with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. People were getting water baptized before anyone new anything about Christ's death.
Read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, you will not find anybody that knew that Christ would die, be buried, and rise again the third day (and much less takeaway a persons sins). Look at the below scripture passages.
Matthew 3:
[1] In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
[2] And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
[3] For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
We see that John's message is for the people to repent of theirs sins for Christ is coming to set up His kingdom on the earth. In other words, the Son of God is coming to set up His kingdom so get your act together.
[4] And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
[5] Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
[6] And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
[7] But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
We now see that John is preaching "the wrath to come". The "wrath to come" is the 2nd coming of Christ when He comes with the armies of heaven and kills all the wicked men who did not repent and took the mark of the beast.
[8] Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
[9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
To avoid the "wrath to come" the Jews need to repent and be baptized and they are not saved just because they are Jews.
[10] And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
[12] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
The baptism with water is the baptism that John is doing, the baptism with the Holy Ghost is a baptism done by Christ to the saved people, and the baptism with fire is also done by Christ and it is on those who reject the kingdom gospel and it is a baptism of judgment. That is what is meant by "he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire".
Luke 3:
[2] Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
[3] And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
[4] As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
[5] Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
[6] And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
[7] Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
[8] Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
[9] And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[10] And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then?
[11] He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.
[12] Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do?
[13] And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you.
[14] And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.
[15] And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
[16] John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
[17] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
Luke 3:2-17 is basically what we read in Matthew 3 accept now we see that this baptism is "for the remission of sins" (v. 3) and that the gospel of the kingdom is being preached and that Christ is being offered to Israel as King on earth (Matt. 4:23, Matthew 9:35, Matt. 24:14, Mark 1:14, Matt. 3:2, Matt. 10:5-7, Mark 16:15-16, Acts 3:19-26, Romans 11:25-26, Matthew 19:16-30).
Now let's look into John 1 as we are looking into this issue of why somebody was water baptized.
John 1:
[23] He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
[24] And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
[25] And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
[26] John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
[27] He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
[28] These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
[29] The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
[30] This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
[31] And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
[32] And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
[33] And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
[34] And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
There in John 1 we see why John baptized, to make Christ manifest to Israel and demonstrating that He is the Son of God (v. 31,34). Nothing about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
We see John say "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world", but that is clearly not talking about the death of Christ. The twelve apostles believed John's and Christ's preaching but they knew nothing about the death of Christ.
Matthew 16:
[21]
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he
must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief
priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
[22] Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
[23]
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art
an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God,
but those that be of men.
Mark 9:
[31] For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
[32] But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.
Luke 9:
[43] And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples,
[44] Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.
[45] But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.
If John preached the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ he did a poor job of it! The 12 apostles did not know anything about it until after it was over (Luke 24). Yet, they got baptized and they baptized other people. Therefore, water baptism has nothing to do with the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. The purpose of water baptism was to make Christ as the Son of God manifest to Israel (John 1:31-34).
So what then did John mean by, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world"? Well we know he preached the wrath to come, the 2nd coming of Christ when all the wicked men who took the mark of the beast will be taken away in judgment (Matt. 3:10-12, 2 Thes. 1:7-10). That is what is meant by "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world". Look at the below scriptures.
Revelation 6:
[12]
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a
great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the
moon became as blood;
[13] And the stars of heaven fell unto
the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is
shaken of a mighty wind.
[14] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
[15]
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and
the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every
free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[16]
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the
face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
The "Lamb of God" is not usually mentioned in the manner of Christ being the sacrificial Lamb that paid for sins, Christ is usually given that title in the context of His power, wrath, and judgment as we saw in Revelation 6. The "wrath to come" that John preached is also the same thing that takes away the sins of the world. As we saw in Rev. 6:15-17 the wicked men are going to try and escape the wrath of the Lamb. These people are the sinners that get taken out of the world in judgment.
Isaiah 13:
[5] They
come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the
weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
[6] Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
[7] Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
[8]
And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them;
they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed
one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
[9] Behold,
the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to
lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of
it.
[10] For the stars of heaven and the constellations
thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his
going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
[11]
And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their
iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will
lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
[12] I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
[13]
Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of
her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his
fierce anger.
[14] And it shall be as the chased roe, and as a
sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own
people, and flee every one into his own land.
[15] Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
There we see that in the day of the Lord, the wrath to come, Christ takes the sinners out of the world.
2 Thessalonians 1:
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Revelation 19:
[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[12] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
[17] And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
[18] That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
[19] And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
[20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
[21] And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
So there is what John preached, the coming kingdom of Christ and His wrath. His baptism was "for the remission of sins" and it was to make Christ, the Son of God, manifest to Israel (John 1:31-34). Nothing about a death, burial, and resurrection, nobody knew about that until after the event (Luke 24). Those who rejected the water baptism rejected the council of God and were lost as seen in Luke 7:28-30.
Luke 7:
[28] For I
say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater
prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of
God is greater than he.
[29] And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
[30] But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
So now look at Acts 8.
Acts 8:
[26] And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
[27] And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
[28] Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
[29] Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
[30] And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
[31] And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
[32] The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
[33] In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
[34] And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
[35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
[36] And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
[37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
[38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Now some say that verse 37 should not be there, but it fits perfectly with the gospel of the kingdom being preached. The eunuch obviously found out about the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ in verse 35, but as we already saw water baptism has nothing to do with the death, burial, and resurrection so it does not matter.....the purpose of baptism was a ceremonial cleansing to manifest Christ as the Son of God to Israel.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
For more information on baptism try this post http://av1611studyblog.blogspot.com/2014/05/hosss-reply-to-herb-evans-on-baptism.html
This supposed error in scripture turns out to be an error in rightly dividing the word of truth as are many other "errors" (2 Tim. 2:15).
--Eli "Hoss" Caldwell
Friday, May 30, 2014
Hoss's reply to Herb Evans on baptism.
NOTE: This message will complete refute everything you have said and make you go crying back to your brider buddies. 
You will not be able to answer this message and you will more than likely convert to a Bible student who rightly divides the word of truth. As far as I am concerned this will be my last response to the debate.
Ok, I don't know how you got the idea about tongue talking and all that.
There is no water in Romans 6, Galatians 3, Ephesians 4, or Colossians 2. That is a baptism "by the Spirit" according to 1 Cor. 12:13.
There is no verse that says water baptism pictures the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ nor is there a verse that proves water baptism was even by immersion. Yes, it says the two men would go into the water, but as far as that goes the historical accounts say that pouring and sprinkling were done with both people standing in water. I am not saying it was not by immersion, I am just saying that it cannot be rightly proven.
As for that cambellite interpretation of Romans 6, what in the world are you talking about? When we believe the gospel by faith, the Spirit of Christ indwells us making us joined unto the Lord, making us members of Christ, and therefore Christ is living in us......that is what putting on Christ is. How could you thing water buptism has anything to do with that?
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 3:[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?[26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
1 Corinthians 6:[15] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. [16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. [18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body. [19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? [20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. [18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body. [19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? [20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Corinthians 12:[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 2:
[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
[4] But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Colossians 2:[6] As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: [10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Colossians 3:[1] If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.[2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Romans 6:[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?[3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.[7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.[8] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:[9] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.[10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
There was the scriptures, now here is the "rationale" as you put it. Based on Galatians 2:20, 3:1-3, and 4:6, it is scripturally sound to say that when the Spirit of Christ indwells us that Christ lives in us and that we are crucified with Christ and in the likeness of His death and resurrection. The "likeness of His death" of Romans 6 is Christ coming into us and quickening us....our spirit was "dead" but then He quickened us with His Spirit making us alive. Now that we are alive we are now dead to sins (in the likeness of His death) and so now we should live for Him and not obey the lusts of our flesh (be in the likeness of His resurrection). What does water have to do with any of that? Where do you see water in Romans 6 or Galatians 3?
Ananias was a devout man according to the law and was a kingdom gospel believer that believed that one had to get water baptized.....but notice he did not say " arise, and be baptized, and put on Christ".......noooope. Water baptism is only a "like figure" of a cleansing but it was not the actual cleansing.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
The baptism of Romans 6 makes one crucified with Christ and dead to sins, that is a baptism by the Spirit into Christ that we apparently received when we got saved....[unless your buptist brider tradition can prove otherwise]......water baptism however, DOES NOT PUT AWAY THE FILTH OF THE FLESH. You're telling me that I become crucified with Christ being made dead to sins through water baptism, but the Bible says that water baptism does not put away the filth of the flesh.....what version are you using Herb?
Baptism by the Spirit into Christ through the faith of the operation of God = crucified with Christ, buried with Christ, risen with Christ, and seated with Christ.
Baptism with water = A wet Buptist Brider.
Every head bowed, every eye closed! Does I sees a hand? Come on down to the altar why we sings Just as I Is......
Nice try Herby! Have a good weekend. --brother Hoss
Thursday, May 15, 2014
The inspired and preserved King James Bible. (Part 2)
(read previous post before reading this one)
Here I will answer some of the "problems" with being a King James Bible believer.
1.) How can a translation be inspired?
Translations have always been inspired. Anytime a New Testament author quotes the Old Testament which was written in Hebrew he is copying down a Greek translation of it.
For example, in Acts 21-22 Paul starts speaking in Hebrew but Luke (the author of Acts) is writing down what Paul said in Greek. The "original" book of Acts had translation in it.
Acts 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
Acts 22:1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you........
2.) Acts 12:4 uses the word "Easter" instead of Passover.
Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
Both words are clearly in chronological reference to the same period of time. Also, at the time of the AV translation the word "Easter" was somewhat synonymous with "Passover". See the Luther Bible of 1545.
AV: 1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Luther Bible: 1 Corinthians 5:7 Darum feget den alten Sauerteig aus, auf daß ihr ein neuer Teig seid, gleichwie ihr ungesäuert seid. Denn wir haben auch ein Osterlamm, das ist Christus, für uns geopfert.
"Osterlamm" = "Easter Lamb"
"Easter" clearly is no error in the AV given that the words refer to the same period of time and were once synonymous. The Luther Bible also has the same reading of Acts 12:4 as the AV does.
3.) Where was the word of God before 1611?
Who cares? The Geneva Bible, Great Bible, Luther Bible, etc. were not bad choices. I was not around before 1611, I do not think anyone cares where the word of God was before 1611. The important thing is where is the word of God right now.
4.) The King James Bible has had several revisions made to it since 1611.
What is your point? Nestles Greek text has had 28 editions and you never said anything about that.
The AV has had several editions, but no revisions. The AV went through changes in font, spelling, and the printers errors were corrected......never a revision of readings/text.
5.) The King James translators were afraid to translate the Greek word for baptism to "immersion" and instead transliterated the word to not offend Catholics.
Boloney........I was given this rubbish by a Southern Baptist fellow who liked the NASB one time and I said "well does the NASB and the other modern versions use the word "baptize" and its variants?" His answer was "yes, but after 250+ years the word had become an actual English word." So I assume that means if a word has been in a language for 250 years it is okay to use it in a Bible......so then why is the AV in error for using "baptize" rather than "immerse"? The Wycliffe Bible of 1382 (229 years before the AV) used the word "baptize" and so did every other English bible. So the word "baptize" had been being used in English for 229 years before the AV came along.
Wycliffe Bible 1382: 1 Corinthians 10:2 "and all were baptized in Moses, in the cloud and in the sea;"
Might I also mention that "baptize" does not always mean an immersion. Would "immersion unto Moses" make sense here?
AV 1611: 1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
Those who were immersed were the Egyptians and they all died. The Jews who were baptized "unto Moses" were identified with Moses.....not immersed unto him. Baptisms can be pourings, immersions, etc. but it just about is always a identification.
6.) The dead sea scrolls were not discovered yet and there have been new manuscripts found since 1611.
There have been no knew readings since 1611. Might I ask where was the word of God before the discovery of the dead sea scrolls (1946)?
7.) The King James Bible is archaic.
It works just fine for me, but those dead languages of Hebrew and Greek, now those are archaic and should be discarded. When you study, think, and read the AV like you believed it was the very words of God that are "profitable" (2 Tim. 3:16) I think you could understand it. That's all I have ever had to do besides use a dictionary every now and again. But isn't having to use an English dictionary better than having to use a Hebrew to English or Greek to English dictionary? I also have a list of where the modern versions changed the word in the AV to a more difficult word. The "archaic" argument is weak and hypocritical at best.
8.) The King James Bible contradicts in Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9.
How on earth did you come to that conclusion.
Acts 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Acts 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
The men with Paul heard a voice, but did not see a man. (Who's voice did they hear? We know the man they did not see was Jesus Christ.)
The men with Paul "heard not the voice of him" that spake with Paul (which was Jesus Christ).
So obviously the voice the men heard was Paul's voice and they were confused because they "saw no man" (to whom Paul was talking to).
9.) The King James Bible has words in italics that were added by the translators.
The words in italics have to be added for the text to make sense, all translating requires that when you go from one language to the next. The modern versions do it too.
ESV Psalms 16:8 I have set the Lord always before me; because he is at my right hand, I shall not be shaken.
As you can see, the ESV contains the words "he is" which are not in italics, but those words ARE in italics in the AV. The modern versions had to add words as well, they just did not put them in italics to let you know like the AV translators did.
I also have several books that show where the OT words are in italics, but people in the NT quote the OT passages but the words are not in italics anymore.
10.) The King James Bible differs from the Received Text (Textus Receptus).
And who ever said the TR was the inspired word of God?
11.) The older manuscripts Aleph and Vaticanus were not yet discovered in 1611.
Who cares? The readings were available in the catholic versions if they wanted them. I do not give a flip about Aleph and Vaticanus, might I ask where was the word of God before they were discovered?
12.) The 1611 King James Bible had the apocryphal books in them.
A Bible is an Old Testament and a New Testament, the AV of 1611 did not have the apocryphal books in either testament. It had them between the testaments apart from the canon. The modern versions Greek texts contain the apocrypha in them, but for some reason nobody ever talks about that.
13.) Erasmus was a Catholic.
Yes, and he was about as good a catholic as Martin Luther. Erasmus ate meat on Fridays and wrote a book against the wickedness of the catholic church. He believed in salvation by grace and faith alone and the catholic church REJECTED the Greek text of Erasmus and persecuted those who did use it (while they enjoined there manuscripts Aleph and B). Erasmus was just a little more roman catholic than my dog.
14.) The King James only advocates follow a man (Peter Ruckman).
Boloney, we follow a Book. I disagree with Dr. Ruckman on quite a few issues.
15.) King James only advocates worship the AV.
Boloney, we do not pray to it or worship it.....we just magnify it.
Psalms 138:2 "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."
Psalm 119:140 "Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it. "
To magnify the very words of God that He magnified above all His name then we must put everything else in its proper place.....the garbage dumpster.
By the way, if I am a "idol worshiper" for believing in ONE Book as ONE authority, then I suppose those who use several different translations as many authorities are actually polytheist.
16.) I can still find the doctrines of the trinity, deity of Christ, blood atonement, etc. in my other versions.
So what? Could I burn one room in your house down as long as I did not burn the entire house down?
Here I will answer some of the "problems" with being a King James Bible believer.
1.) How can a translation be inspired?
Translations have always been inspired. Anytime a New Testament author quotes the Old Testament which was written in Hebrew he is copying down a Greek translation of it.
For example, in Acts 21-22 Paul starts speaking in Hebrew but Luke (the author of Acts) is writing down what Paul said in Greek. The "original" book of Acts had translation in it.
Acts 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
Acts 22:1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you........
2.) Acts 12:4 uses the word "Easter" instead of Passover.
Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
Both words are clearly in chronological reference to the same period of time. Also, at the time of the AV translation the word "Easter" was somewhat synonymous with "Passover". See the Luther Bible of 1545.
AV: 1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
Luther Bible: 1 Corinthians 5:7 Darum feget den alten Sauerteig aus, auf daß ihr ein neuer Teig seid, gleichwie ihr ungesäuert seid. Denn wir haben auch ein Osterlamm, das ist Christus, für uns geopfert.
"Osterlamm" = "Easter Lamb"
"Easter" clearly is no error in the AV given that the words refer to the same period of time and were once synonymous. The Luther Bible also has the same reading of Acts 12:4 as the AV does.
3.) Where was the word of God before 1611?
Who cares? The Geneva Bible, Great Bible, Luther Bible, etc. were not bad choices. I was not around before 1611, I do not think anyone cares where the word of God was before 1611. The important thing is where is the word of God right now.
4.) The King James Bible has had several revisions made to it since 1611.
What is your point? Nestles Greek text has had 28 editions and you never said anything about that.
The AV has had several editions, but no revisions. The AV went through changes in font, spelling, and the printers errors were corrected......never a revision of readings/text.
5.) The King James translators were afraid to translate the Greek word for baptism to "immersion" and instead transliterated the word to not offend Catholics.
Boloney........I was given this rubbish by a Southern Baptist fellow who liked the NASB one time and I said "well does the NASB and the other modern versions use the word "baptize" and its variants?" His answer was "yes, but after 250+ years the word had become an actual English word." So I assume that means if a word has been in a language for 250 years it is okay to use it in a Bible......so then why is the AV in error for using "baptize" rather than "immerse"? The Wycliffe Bible of 1382 (229 years before the AV) used the word "baptize" and so did every other English bible. So the word "baptize" had been being used in English for 229 years before the AV came along.
Wycliffe Bible 1382: 1 Corinthians 10:2 "and all were baptized in Moses, in the cloud and in the sea;"
Might I also mention that "baptize" does not always mean an immersion. Would "immersion unto Moses" make sense here?
AV 1611: 1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
Those who were immersed were the Egyptians and they all died. The Jews who were baptized "unto Moses" were identified with Moses.....not immersed unto him. Baptisms can be pourings, immersions, etc. but it just about is always a identification.
6.) The dead sea scrolls were not discovered yet and there have been new manuscripts found since 1611.
There have been no knew readings since 1611. Might I ask where was the word of God before the discovery of the dead sea scrolls (1946)?
7.) The King James Bible is archaic.
It works just fine for me, but those dead languages of Hebrew and Greek, now those are archaic and should be discarded. When you study, think, and read the AV like you believed it was the very words of God that are "profitable" (2 Tim. 3:16) I think you could understand it. That's all I have ever had to do besides use a dictionary every now and again. But isn't having to use an English dictionary better than having to use a Hebrew to English or Greek to English dictionary? I also have a list of where the modern versions changed the word in the AV to a more difficult word. The "archaic" argument is weak and hypocritical at best.
8.) The King James Bible contradicts in Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9.
How on earth did you come to that conclusion.
Acts 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
Acts 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
The men with Paul heard a voice, but did not see a man. (Who's voice did they hear? We know the man they did not see was Jesus Christ.)
The men with Paul "heard not the voice of him" that spake with Paul (which was Jesus Christ).
So obviously the voice the men heard was Paul's voice and they were confused because they "saw no man" (to whom Paul was talking to).
9.) The King James Bible has words in italics that were added by the translators.
James L. Melton has responded to this by saying "The italicized words in the King James Bible are words that were added by the translators to help the reader. This is usually necessary when translating from one language to another because word meanings and idioms change. So, to produce a more readable translation, the King James translators (1604- 1611) added certain words to the Bible text. However, to make sure that everyone understood that these words were not in the available manuscripts they set them in italics........omitting the italicized words from II Samuel 21:19 would give Elhanan credit for slaying Goliath, yet everyone knows that it was David who slew Goliath. II Samuel 21:19 says:
"And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam."
If we omit the words "the brother of" then we make II Samuel 21:19 contradict I Chronicles 20:5:
"And there was war again with the Philistines; and Elhanan the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam." (No italics!)
Another important point is that New Testament writers QUOTE from the italicized words in the Old Testament. Note the following:
Psalm 16:8 says: "I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved."
The words "he is" are in italics. When Peter quotes this verse in Acts 2:25 he also quotes the italicized words, but Luke doesn't write them in italics:
"For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved."
Why did Peter quote these words and why did Luke write these words if they weren't in the original manuscripts? Should we omit the italics? Not according to Peter and Luke!
In Deuteronomy 25:4, the word of God says:
"Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn."
The words "the corn" are in italics, which the sceptics claim should be omitted. However, we find Paul quoting these words in I Corinthians 9:9:
"For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?"
If these words do not belong in Deuteronomy 25:4, why did Paul quote them?
It is easy to claim that the italicized words do not belong in the King James Bible, but proving it is altogether a different story. May God help us to spend more time reading and believing our King James Bible and less time speaking critically of it." -James L. Melton http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/italics.html
The words in italics have to be added for the text to make sense, all translating requires that when you go from one language to the next. The modern versions do it too.
ESV Psalms 16:8 I have set the Lord always before me; because he is at my right hand, I shall not be shaken.
As you can see, the ESV contains the words "he is" which are not in italics, but those words ARE in italics in the AV. The modern versions had to add words as well, they just did not put them in italics to let you know like the AV translators did.
I also have several books that show where the OT words are in italics, but people in the NT quote the OT passages but the words are not in italics anymore.
10.) The King James Bible differs from the Received Text (Textus Receptus).
And who ever said the TR was the inspired word of God?
11.) The older manuscripts Aleph and Vaticanus were not yet discovered in 1611.
Who cares? The readings were available in the catholic versions if they wanted them. I do not give a flip about Aleph and Vaticanus, might I ask where was the word of God before they were discovered?
12.) The 1611 King James Bible had the apocryphal books in them.
A Bible is an Old Testament and a New Testament, the AV of 1611 did not have the apocryphal books in either testament. It had them between the testaments apart from the canon. The modern versions Greek texts contain the apocrypha in them, but for some reason nobody ever talks about that.
13.) Erasmus was a Catholic.
Yes, and he was about as good a catholic as Martin Luther. Erasmus ate meat on Fridays and wrote a book against the wickedness of the catholic church. He believed in salvation by grace and faith alone and the catholic church REJECTED the Greek text of Erasmus and persecuted those who did use it (while they enjoined there manuscripts Aleph and B). Erasmus was just a little more roman catholic than my dog.
14.) The King James only advocates follow a man (Peter Ruckman).
Boloney, we follow a Book. I disagree with Dr. Ruckman on quite a few issues.
15.) King James only advocates worship the AV.
Boloney, we do not pray to it or worship it.....we just magnify it.
Psalms 138:2 "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."
Psalm 119:140 "Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it. "
To magnify the very words of God that He magnified above all His name then we must put everything else in its proper place.....the garbage dumpster.
By the way, if I am a "idol worshiper" for believing in ONE Book as ONE authority, then I suppose those who use several different translations as many authorities are actually polytheist.
16.) I can still find the doctrines of the trinity, deity of Christ, blood atonement, etc. in my other versions.
So what? Could I burn one room in your house down as long as I did not burn the entire house down?
The inspired and preserved King James Bible. (Part 1)
In this post I want to explain my position on the final authority of the King James Bible. I believe the Authorized King James Bible to be the perfect preservation of the inspired word of God that is completely infallible and without need for "correcting". I have done posts like this before, but I think this one will be better. This will be the starting point for my next post where I will hopefully answer the supposed "problems" with being a KJB believer.
Here is our launching point, God inspired a Book and that Book has been preserved by God.
2 Timothy 3:
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
1 Peter 1:
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
[24] For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
[25] But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
2 Peter 1:
[16] For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
[17] For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
[18] And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
[19] We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
[20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Psalms 12:
[6] The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
[7] Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
So God inspired a Book and HE preserved that Book (Psalms 12:7). God inspired the Book and He is the one that preserves it. Every word of it, not just the general ideas and doctrines of it (Matthew 24:35). That means the exact inspired words of God are out there somewhere and I can find them. The "LIVETH AND ABIDETH FOREVER" (1 Peter 1:23). Let's keep going......
Isaiah 55:
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
[10] For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Ain't that something? The word of God does not return to God void and it accomplishes and prospers in the will of God (Isaiah 55:9-11). The word of God is something that we can "preach", it is something we can "study", it is something "keep", it is something we can "hear", it is something we can "know", and it is something we can "search". With all that said, and knowing that the word of God "liveth", "abideth", and that is does not return to God "void", we know that the word of God is not in the Hebrew/Greek manuscripts.
One percent of Christians might could read Hebrew/Greek and hardly any lost people could read the 5,400 scattered and battered Greek manuscripts (not counting Hebrew). Hebrew and Greek are dead languages that hardly anyone can read or understand and they are highly archaic. None of these facts fit the description of the word of God that lives and abides forever and does not return void. There is no proof that there are any inspired Hebrew/Greek texts around today. Dr. James R. White knows a lot of Hebrew and Greek and even he does not think that any of them are inspired. That is true, we have no evidence that any of them are inspired and none of them fit the description we looked at.
The King James Bible does fit that description though. The King James Bible is in English, the language that most of the world has access to learning. It has been leading souls to Christ and God has used it and honored it ever since it came off the printing press. The King James Bible also is the most pro-trinity, pro-deity of Christ, pro-preservation of scripture, and anti-sin out of all other translations we have today.
For example, the new versions take away from the deity of Christ and say that Joseph is the father of Christ.
KJB.....Luke 2:33 " And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him."
ESV....Luke 2:33 "And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him."
NIV....Luke 2:33 "The child’s father and mother marveled at what was said about him."
NASV...Luke 2:33 " And His father and mother were amazed at the things which were being said about Him."
Here is our launching point, God inspired a Book and that Book has been preserved by God.
2 Timothy 3:
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
1 Peter 1:
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
[24] For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
[25] But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
2 Peter 1:
[16] For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
[17] For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
[18] And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
[19] We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
[20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Psalms 12:
[6] The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
[7] Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
So God inspired a Book and HE preserved that Book (Psalms 12:7). God inspired the Book and He is the one that preserves it. Every word of it, not just the general ideas and doctrines of it (Matthew 24:35). That means the exact inspired words of God are out there somewhere and I can find them. The "LIVETH AND ABIDETH FOREVER" (1 Peter 1:23). Let's keep going......
Isaiah 55:
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
[10] For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Ain't that something? The word of God does not return to God void and it accomplishes and prospers in the will of God (Isaiah 55:9-11). The word of God is something that we can "preach", it is something we can "study", it is something "keep", it is something we can "hear", it is something we can "know", and it is something we can "search". With all that said, and knowing that the word of God "liveth", "abideth", and that is does not return to God "void", we know that the word of God is not in the Hebrew/Greek manuscripts.
One percent of Christians might could read Hebrew/Greek and hardly any lost people could read the 5,400 scattered and battered Greek manuscripts (not counting Hebrew). Hebrew and Greek are dead languages that hardly anyone can read or understand and they are highly archaic. None of these facts fit the description of the word of God that lives and abides forever and does not return void. There is no proof that there are any inspired Hebrew/Greek texts around today. Dr. James R. White knows a lot of Hebrew and Greek and even he does not think that any of them are inspired. That is true, we have no evidence that any of them are inspired and none of them fit the description we looked at.
The King James Bible does fit that description though. The King James Bible is in English, the language that most of the world has access to learning. It has been leading souls to Christ and God has used it and honored it ever since it came off the printing press. The King James Bible also is the most pro-trinity, pro-deity of Christ, pro-preservation of scripture, and anti-sin out of all other translations we have today.
For example, the new versions take away from the deity of Christ and say that Joseph is the father of Christ.
KJB.....Luke 2:33 " And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him."
ESV....Luke 2:33 "And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him."
NIV....Luke 2:33 "The child’s father and mother marveled at what was said about him."
NASV...Luke 2:33 " And His father and mother were amazed at the things which were being said about Him."
Also, the modern versions omit words. "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump" -Gal 5:9
The word "Lord".
KJB: 735 times
NASB: 627 times
ESV: 616
The word "Christ".
KJB: 575 times
NASB: 528 times
ESV: 534 times
The word "God".
KJB: 1413 times
NASB: 1208 times
ESV: 1221 times
The words "Son of God".
KJB: 47 times
NASB: 43 times
ESV: 44 times
The word "sin".
KJB: 320 times
NASB: 96 times
ESV: 105
The words "living God".
KJB: 15 times
NASB: 13 times
ESV: 14 times
The word "saved".
KJB: 57 times
NASB: 51 times
ESV: 55 times
The word "justified".
KJB: 31 times
NASB: 21 times
ESV: 26 times
The word "scripture".
KJB: 52 times
NASB: 33 times
ESV: 34 times
The words "word of God".
KJB: 45 times
NASB: 41 times
ESV: 39 times
The word "hell".
KJB: 23 times
NASB: 13 times
ESV: 14 times
The word "heaven".
KJB: 298 times
NASB: 213 times
ESV: 220 times
The word "gospel".
KJB: 104 times
NASB: 95 times
ESV: 92 times
The word "glory".
KJB: 181 times
NASB: 146 times
ESV: 143 times
The word "holy".
KJB: 182 times
NASB: 167 times
ESV: 180 times
The word "charity".
KJB: 28 times
NASB: 3 times
ESV: 1 time
The word "grace".
KJB: 130 times
NASB: 114 times
ESV: 118 times
The word "blood".
KJB: 102 times
NASB: 87 times
ESV: 91 times
The word "beware".
KJB: 16 times
NASB: 12 times
ESV: 13 times
The word "freely".
KJB: 10 times
NASB: 8 times
ESV: 5 times
The word "gift".
KJB: 61 times
NASB: 30 times
ESV: 33 times
The word "truth".
KJB: 119 times
NASB: 98 times
ESV: 89 times
The words "sure word".
KJB: 1 time
NASB: None
ESV: None
The word "inspiration".
KJB: 1 time
NASB: None
ESV: None
The word "Calvary".
KJB: 1 time
NASB: None
ESV: None
The words "God was manifest in the flesh".
KJB: 1 time
NASB: None
ESV: None
The word "Lord".
KJB: 735 times
NASB: 627 times
ESV: 616
The word "Christ".
KJB: 575 times
NASB: 528 times
ESV: 534 times
The word "God".
KJB: 1413 times
NASB: 1208 times
ESV: 1221 times
The words "Son of God".
KJB: 47 times
NASB: 43 times
ESV: 44 times
The word "sin".
KJB: 320 times
NASB: 96 times
ESV: 105
The words "living God".
KJB: 15 times
NASB: 13 times
ESV: 14 times
The word "saved".
KJB: 57 times
NASB: 51 times
ESV: 55 times
The word "justified".
KJB: 31 times
NASB: 21 times
ESV: 26 times
The word "scripture".
KJB: 52 times
NASB: 33 times
ESV: 34 times
The words "word of God".
KJB: 45 times
NASB: 41 times
ESV: 39 times
The word "hell".
KJB: 23 times
NASB: 13 times
ESV: 14 times
The word "heaven".
KJB: 298 times
NASB: 213 times
ESV: 220 times
The word "gospel".
KJB: 104 times
NASB: 95 times
ESV: 92 times
The word "glory".
KJB: 181 times
NASB: 146 times
ESV: 143 times
The word "holy".
KJB: 182 times
NASB: 167 times
ESV: 180 times
The word "charity".
KJB: 28 times
NASB: 3 times
ESV: 1 time
The word "grace".
KJB: 130 times
NASB: 114 times
ESV: 118 times
The word "blood".
KJB: 102 times
NASB: 87 times
ESV: 91 times
The word "beware".
KJB: 16 times
NASB: 12 times
ESV: 13 times
The word "freely".
KJB: 10 times
NASB: 8 times
ESV: 5 times
The word "gift".
KJB: 61 times
NASB: 30 times
ESV: 33 times
The word "truth".
KJB: 119 times
NASB: 98 times
ESV: 89 times
The words "sure word".
KJB: 1 time
NASB: None
ESV: None
The word "inspiration".
KJB: 1 time
NASB: None
ESV: None
The word "Calvary".
KJB: 1 time
NASB: None
ESV: None
The words "God was manifest in the flesh".
KJB: 1 time
NASB: None
ESV: None
Also notice the ESV's abominable words I have highlighted in red. Then look at the King James Bible.
Philippians 2:6 (ESV) who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped
(KJB) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
The NIV, NASB, ESV, etc. omit ENTIRE verses of scripture. Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Matthew 17:21- (All omit)
The Authorized King James Bible clearly outshines every supposed "bible" out of the 300+ that exist.
Matthew 18:11 - (All omit)
Matthew 23:14- (All omit)
Mark 7:16 - (All omit)
Mark 9:44 - (All omit)
Mark 9:46 - (All omit)
Mark 11:26 - (All omit)
Mark 15:28 - (All omit)
Luke 17:36 - (All omit)
Luke 23:17 - (All omit)
John 5:4 - (All omit)
Acts 8:37 - (All omit)
Acts 15:34 - (All omit)
Saturday, May 10, 2014
The ultimate irrefutable refute to local church onlyism.
Here is an email I sent to my good friend Dr. Herbert Evans.
[18] Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the alter?
[19] What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
[20] But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
[21] Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
The body (human body) is ONE, but it has MANY members. SO ALSO IS CHRIST. Christ is never many bodies which are different local churches, Christ is always ONE body with MANY members.......there goes local church onlysim. Bye-bye! You will NEVER find "many bodies" it is always ONE body. The members is what there are members of.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[14] For the body is not one member, but many.
[15] If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[16] And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[17] If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
[18] But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
[19] And if they were all one member, where were the body?
[20] But now are they many members, yet but one body.
The only thing that there is "many" of is members, not bodies. There is YET BUT ONE BODY.
[21] And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
[22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
[23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
[24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
[25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
[26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it
[27] Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Back to the context we have all the members of this local church with different gifts but are supposed to function as one body because they are the body of Christ and members in particular (each member has his own job)
[28] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
[29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
[30] Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
[31] But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Want exposition huh?
1 Corinthians 10:
[16] The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
[17] For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
[17] For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
"WE"!!! Every "we" in that passage is referring to all saved Christians (including Paul) taking the Lord's supper. Not one of those "we" is only talking about the Corinthian local church.
Checkout verse 17, they are "one body" (or figurative "bread") because they partook of Christ's death (or figurative "bread" referring to the body and blood of Christ on the cross). Now partaking of Christ's death/body and blood is not referring to the Lord's supper in verse 17......it is explaining WHY we do the communion of verse 16. In other words, that "for" means "because of" LOL.
WHY do we have communion? Because we are one body by partaking of Christ's death on the cross and we take it together as a memorial of that. Ephesians 2 provides the best cross reference to what I just said.
Ephesians 2:
[13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
[14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
As further evidence of that, we see Paul contrasting the false practice of the Jews and Gentiles from that which the body of Christ does.....because in the body of Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
[18] Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the alter?
[19] What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
[20] But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
[21] Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
Here is our next passage.
1 Corinthians 12:
[1] Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
[2] Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[4] Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[6] And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
[8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
[9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
[10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
[11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
What we saw there was Paul teaching these Corinthians that they all have different gifts/different purposes but it is all done by the SAME Spirit. That is our context......pretty self explanatory.[2] Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[4] Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[6] And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
[8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
[9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
[10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
[11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
That is explaining how WE got into the body of Christ of verse 12. By a baptism by the Spirit into the body of Christ. The Spirit does not baptize you into anything local/literal.
However, Paul is using the body of Christ truth and doctrine as illustration of our context.......that the members in the local church have different gifts but they are given by the SAME Spirit and we are all ONE body. Obviously the Corinthians church is not it's own body of Christ because Paul did NOT say "by one Spirit are well baptized into each body" and NOT "by one Spirit are ye all baptized into one body". No, it is "by one Spirit are well all baptized into one body". This is not water baptism into many local churches.
[14] For the body is not one member, but many.
[16] And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[17] If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
[18] But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
Again, Paul is back to the context........the members of the church should function as one just as the human body does. God set the members in the body...."by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body".......not "we are all water baptized into local churches and then set in the church by popular vote".
[19] And if they were all one member, where were the body?
[20] But now are they many members, yet but one body.
[21] And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
[22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
[23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
[24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
[25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
[26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it
[27] Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
[28] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
[29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
[30] Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
[31] But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
There was the rest of the content. Notice this is the "church" as in the local assembly and not the body of Christ. There is not "governments" in the body of Christ because HE IS THE HEAD. That passage is clearly a list of the different gifts/abilities that the church has.
The best cross reference to that would be Ephesians 4.
Ephesians 4:
[11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;[12] For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:[13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
[15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
[16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
[14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
[15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
[16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Ephesians 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Is that your opinion of "exposition" or was that me "flinging scriptures" ;)
Have a good weekend! --Bro. Hoss
Tuesday, May 6, 2014
More Acts 28 position refutes (Part 2)
Below is an email I sent to a friend who holds to the Acts 28 position.
Thanks, I was just about to send you a few thoughts on the hope of Acts believers. I am not trying to start debate or poison your mind with M.A.D.ness, but I did want to offer this in regards to the Acts hope. (perhaps I'm over zealous)
Paul tells the Colossians that the "hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel" . It would seem that the Colossians received their heavenly hope when the received the gospel during Acts, in that case that would be true for all Acts believers.
Colossians 1
[4] Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
[5] For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
[6] Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
[5] For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
[6] Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
[12] Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[14] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
[23] If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
In verse 23 there Paul says that the Colossians had already "heard" the hope of the gospel and that the hope of the gospel was "preached to every creature". That wouldn't that be referring back to Acts?
In Romans 8, 1 Corinthians 15, and 1 Thessalonians 4 there is nothing about coming back down to the earth and receiving an earthly inheritance. Colossians 1:4 says that there is a hope laid up in heaven that the Colossians heard before in the truth of the gospel (during Acts).
But notice this also.
2 Corinthians 5:
[1] For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.[2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
[3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
[5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
[9] Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
[3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
[4] For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
[5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
[8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
[9] Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
That goes right along with Ephesians. Both Acts and post-Acts epistles talk about our bodies being purchased and how we need to serve God in our bodies. Both also talk about the Holy Spirit being the earnest of the inheritance until the redemption of the body.
Ephesians 1:
[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
[14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 6:8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
1 Corinthians 6:
[12] All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
[13] Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
[14] And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
[15] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.
[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
[13] Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
[14] And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
[15] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.
[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Below is the bulk of the passages on the hope, I honestly see them as talking about the same thing. Paul does tell the Colossians that the "hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel" . What impression do you get when reading the below passages?
Well thank you for the correspondence, we'll just have to agree to disagree ;). Have a great week! --Eli "Hoss" Caldwell
Romans 8:
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[12] Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[15] For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
[18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
[19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
[21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
[22] For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
[23] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
[24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
[25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[12] Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[15] For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
[18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
[19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
[21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
[22] For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
[23] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
[24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
[25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
1 Corinthians 15:
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
[56] The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
[57] But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
[56] The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
[57] But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 4:
[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Philippians 3:
[20] For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
[21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
[21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Titus 2:
[13] Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
[14] Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Colossians 3:
[1] If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
[2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
[4] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
[5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
[4] When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
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