Isaiah 14:23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
Often times that word "besom" is referred to as an "archaic" "out of date" word in the King James Bible that needs to be updated. HOWEVER, just a simple look at the context of the word will define it for us.
"....I will sweep with the besom"....What do we sweep with? A BROOM. So that is what a besom is. The perversions (NASB, ESV, NKJV, MEV, NIV, etc.) have "updated" the word for us with the word "broom".
But why is it always the King James Bible that people criticize for using the word "besom"? How come they never criticize the American Standard Version (ASV) ???
"I will also make it a possession for the porcupine, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith Jehovah of hosts." (ASV)
And surprisingly, the "21st Century King James Version" (KJ21) that is supposedly an "updated" King James Bible 1611 ALSO SAYS "BESOM".
"I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water; and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction,” saith the Lord of hosts. " (KJ21)
And what about the Contemporary English Version and New Life Version? They OMITTED any reference to a besom or broom! How come nobody ever mentions that?
"The Lord will sweep out the people, and the land will become a swamp for wild animals." (CEV)
"I will turn it into a place for hedgehogs, full of pools of water. And I will go over it and destroy it,” says the Lord of All." (NLV)
Most of all....HOW COME NOBODY IS CRITICIZING "THE MESSAGE" IN ISAIAH 14:23????
"“I will confront them”—Decree of God-of-the-Angel-Armies—“and strip Babylon of name and survivors, children and grandchildren.” God’s Decree. “I’ll make it a worthless swamp and give it as a prize to the hedgehog. And then I’ll bulldoze it out of existence.” Decree of God-of-the-Angel-Armies. "
A bulldozer, really?
For some reason people just love to attack the King James Bible (2 Cor. 2:17).
--Eli "Hoss" Caldwell
Tuesday, November 18, 2014
The "Modern English Version" 2014 critiqued
The MEV (Modern English Version) is a new 2014 translation. It is unique from most modern versions in that it was translated from the Textus Receptus--like the King James Bible.
Here is the introduction to the MEV, which is full of deceitful lies. (see my comments inserted in parenthesis)
"The
Modern English Version (MEV) heralds a new day for Bibles with the most
modern translation ever produced in the King James tradition, providing
fresh clarity for Bible readers everywhere with an updated language
that doesn’t compromise the truth of the original texts.
The MEV maintains the beauty of the past, yet provides clarity for a new generation of Bible readers.
The MEV is a literal translation. It is also often referred to as a formal correspondence translation.
The Committee on Bible Translation began its work on the MEV in 2005 and completed it in 2013.
Principles for Translation:
Clear: Literal translation (word-for-word, not thought-for-thought), with capitalized references of God. Historical facts and events are expressed without distortion. At the same time the translation is done in such a way that readers of all backgrounds may understand the message that the original author was communicating to the original audience.
Reverent: Every effort is made to ensure that no political, ideological, social, cultural, or theological agenda is allowed to distort the translation.
Accurate: The Scriptures are accurately translated without loss, change, compromise, embellishments or distortions of the meaning of the original text.
Conceived by James F. Linzey, now a retired U.S. Army chaplain and graduate of Fuller Theological Seminary, the MEV is a modern translation originally intended to be used among military chaplains for outreach. Linzey pulled together a team of 47 translators from a wide range of denominations—a miracle in itself, by many accounts—and began work in 2005. The New Testament was completed in 2011 for the 400th anniversary of the KJV and the Old Testament in 2013.
The Holy Bible, Modern English Version. Copyright © 2014 by Military Bible Association. Published and distributed by Charisma House. All rights reserved."
"produced in the King James tradition "
(I am not
interested in the "King James tradition"....I want the pure words of God
preserved perfectly (Psa. 12:6-7)...often times tradition makes the
word of God of none effect according to Mark 7:13.)
"the truth of the original texts "
(That
is the most crooked statement I have ever read--there is no such thing
as "the original texts"!!! The originals deteriorated 1,900 years ago
and they were never compiled into a "text". They were individual
manuscripts that passed away and never brought into a single text or
Bible. What we have today is copies and translations...that is what God
has preserved His words in according to 2 Timothy 3:13-17, Psalms
12:6-7, 1 Peter 1:23-25, etc......The MEV translators are pretending to
have original manuscripts when they certainly did NOT.)
"The
MEV is a translation of the Textus Receptus "
(Yes, you USED the Textus Receptus but you did not BELIEVE the Textus Receptus. For example....
1 John 5:7 MEV footnote:
"The earliest Greek manuscripts lack in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and the three are one. There are three that testify on earth."
The Textus Receptus includes 1 John 5:7, yet you casted DOUBT on it instead of providing the manuscript evidence itself.
1 John 5:7 is found in 629 (fourteenth century), 61 (sixteenth century), 918 (sixteenth century), 2473 (seventeenth century), and 2318 (eighteenth century). It is also in the margins of 221 (tenth century), 635 (eleventh century), 88 (twelveth century), 429 (fourteenth century), and 636 (fifteenth century). It also in most of the Old Latin manuscripts--which are more numerous than the Greek.
"Church fathers" also quoted 1 John 5:7....
Jerome: "In that place particularly where we read about the unity of the Trinity which is placed in the First Epistle of John, in which also the names of three, i.e. of water, of blood, and of spirit, do they place in their edition and omitting the testimony of the Father; and the Word, and the Spirit in which the catholic faith is especially confirmed and the single substance of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is confirmed."
Cyprian (258 AD): "The Lord says, 'I and the Father are one' and likewise it is written of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 'And these three are one'."
Priscillian (385 AD) "As John says "and there are three which give testimony on earth, the water, the flesh, the blood, and these three are in one, and there are three which give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Spirit, and these three are one in Christ Jesus."
Also the Varimadum (380 AD) states: "And John the Evangelist says, . . . 'And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Spirit, and these three are one'."
Not to mention, Cassian (435 AD), Cassiodorus (580 AD), and a host of other African and Western bishops in subsequent centuries have quoted 1 John 5:7.
See Dr. Thomas Holland's Crowned With Glory for more mss evidence. )
"capitalized references of God "
(No you did not!
MEV
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
The "rock" is CHRIST, not Peter (unless you are a Roman Catholic). Yet you did not capitalize "rock"....so you did not capitalize all the references to God. But don't feel bad, the new king jimmy did the same thing. )
"The Scriptures are accurately translated without loss, change,
compromise, embellishments or distortions of the meaning of the original
text."
(The MEV translators just professed to have produced a perfectly preserved bible! However, they did not have "the original text" to translate from, therefore they are liars and deceivers.)
"The New
Testament was completed in 2011 for the 400th anniversary of the KJV "
(So you perverted the pure words of the King James Bible in honor of the King James Bible? That would be like burning an American flag on the fourth of July!)
I also noticed this about the MEV translators....they do not like doctrine!
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
KJB
2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The worst perversion in the MEV is when it says that Christ did not consider being equal with God a thing to be grasped...which is BLASPHEMY
MEV
Philippians 2:
5 Let this mind be in you all, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.7 But He emptied Himself,
taking upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
taking upon Himself the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
The KJB says "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"....so much for the MEV being in the "King James tradition"!
Christ did not have to "grasp" being equal with God because He was GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH (1 Tim. 3:16 KJB). The King James Bible is right: Christ did not consider it robbery to be equal with God. Christ always accepted worship and He was never afraid to declare His deity (John 1:1-3, 3:13, 5:46, 8:57-58, 10:30-33, 17:21-22, etc.)
There are many more errors in the MEV, but the point is STICK WITH THE KING JAMES BIBLE.
--Eli "Hoss" Caldwell
Introducing a pastor to "King James Onlyism"
Perversions
http://av1611studyblog.blogspot.com/2014/10/perversions.html
Perversions (Part 2)
http://av1611studyblog.blogspot.com/2014/10/perversions-part-2.html
After sending a pastor in South Carolina my two posts, The Perversions (Parts 1 and 2), he responded with this....
"Eli: I agree with the importance of understanding Jeremiah 23:26. God spoke out against the prophets who added their own false ideas (dreams) to the Word of God. The article you sent on the KJV does something similar to what the OT false prophets did--preaching the ideas/dreams of men (straw) as the Word of God (grain). I continue to be amazed that so many people are so proud that they take their preferences and preach them as the Word of God. I send this with a prayer that the false prophet who wrote this article would by the grace of God repent and begin to honor God's Word, rather than adding his own ideas to it.
“I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, ‘I had a dream, I had a dream!’
26 “How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart,
27 who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal?
28 “The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain?” declares the LORD.
29 “Is not My word like fire?” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer which shatters a rock?
New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. 1995 (Je 23:25–29). LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation. "
My reply to the pastor was this....
"Thank you, Sir, for taking time to respond with kindness and advise.
http://av1611studyblog.blogspot.com/2014/10/perversions.html
Perversions (Part 2)
http://av1611studyblog.blogspot.com/2014/10/perversions-part-2.html
After sending a pastor in South Carolina my two posts, The Perversions (Parts 1 and 2), he responded with this....
"Eli: I agree with the importance of understanding Jeremiah 23:26. God spoke out against the prophets who added their own false ideas (dreams) to the Word of God. The article you sent on the KJV does something similar to what the OT false prophets did--preaching the ideas/dreams of men (straw) as the Word of God (grain). I continue to be amazed that so many people are so proud that they take their preferences and preach them as the Word of God. I send this with a prayer that the false prophet who wrote this article would by the grace of God repent and begin to honor God's Word, rather than adding his own ideas to it.
“I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, ‘I had a dream, I had a dream!’
26 “How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart,
27 who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal?
28 “The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain?” declares the LORD.
29 “Is not My word like fire?” declares the LORD, “and like a hammer which shatters a rock?
New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. 1995 (Je 23:25–29). LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation. "
My reply to the pastor was this....
"Thank you, Sir, for taking time to respond with kindness and advise.
I am sorry that you did not take heed to the study on "bible" versions, I was just trying to inform you of the King James Bible's overwhelming support by the available manuscripts and most of all its magnification of Christ above other "bibles".
We are told "Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read" (Isa. 34:16), I believe that "the book of the LORD" for us today is the King James Bible...ALL authority preserved for us without error.
But one more question.....do you believe that Christ was a begotten God and that Joseph was His father? Was He "God manifest in the flesh"?
NASB (the only other "bible" that calls Christ a begotten God....besides the Jehova's Witness translation!)
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
KJB
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
NASB
Luke 2:33 And His father and mother were amazed at the things which were being said about Him.
KJB
Luke 2:33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
NASB
1 Timothy 3:16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.
KJB
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Thank you very much for your time.
In Christ,
Eli "Hoss" Caldwell "
Saturday, November 15, 2014
Complete refutation of baptismal regeneration
GROUNDWORK:
There are at least seven different baptisms in the Bible and if you look at each on of them you will notice that "baptize" does not always mean "immerse".
#1.) God pouring out the flood in judgment [a water pouring with the end result being immersion] according to 1 Peter 3:20-21. ("baptism doth ALSO NOW")
#2.) The identification of the Israelites with Moses, God's messenger. (1 Corinthians 10:1-2) There was no immersion, the baptism was completely dry.
#3.) Water baptism as a "like figure" of the washing away of sins (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, 1 Peter 3:21, Matthew 3, etc.)
#4.) Baptism with fire, another judgement baptism. This one being into hell fire (Matthew 3:10-12, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Revelation 20:15).
#5.) Baptism of suffering/death (Matthew 20:22, Mark 10:38, Luke 12:50).
#6.) Baptism BY Christ WITH the Holy Ghost ONTO a person for power (Matthew 3:11, Acts 2:38, Ezekiel 36:27, Joel 2:28, Jeremiah 32:39, Acts 8:15-17, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:6, etc.)
#7.) Baptism BY the Spirit WITH a person INTO Christ, an "operation of God" (Colossians 2:10-12, 1 Corinthians 12:12-13, Galatians 3:26-28, Romans 6:3-4, Eph. 4:5).
Most proponents of the baptismal regeneration heresy do not acknowledge the apostle Paul as the distinct "apostle to the Gentiles", "the pattern to them which should hereafter believe", and the one who Christ dispensed the revelation of the mystery and gospel of the grace of God to (Romans 11:13, Galatians 1:11-12, Galatians 2:7-8, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, 2 Timothy 2:7, 2 Timothy 2:15, Ephesians 3:1-9, Romans 16:25-26, Colossians 1:25-27, Ephesians 5:22-32, 1 Timothy 1:12-16, Romans 11:25, 1 Corinthians 3:10, 1 Corinthians 4:16, 1 Corinthians 11:1-2, 1 Corinthians 4:1, etc.).
Most baptismal regeneration proponents pretend to follow Christ and Peter, yet they do not follow their command to sell all possessions that we see so frequently in the Gospels and Acts. (Matthew 19:16-23, Mark 10:21, Luke 12:21-33, Mark 6:7-9, Matthew 6:11, Matthew 6:25-34, Luke 9:1-4, Acts 2:44-46, Acts 3:2-6, Acts 4:32-37, Acts 5:1-11)
Most baptismal regeneration proponents do not acknowledge that Peter taught that the blotting out of sins would occur at the 2nd coming of Christ, Acts 3:19-21....in accordance with Jeremiah 31:31-34, 32:37-42, Ezekiel 36:24-33, and Romans 11:25-27. Of course this is talking about Israel, not the body of Christ. What we call "church age doctrine" was revealed to Paul first, not Peter. (Eph. 3:1-9, Gal 2:7-8, Col. 1:24-27, 1 Cor. 4:1, Rom. 16:25).
Most baptismal regeneration proponents reject "rightly dividing the word of truth" as we are commanded in 2 Timothy 2:15.
Here are the key divisions in the New Testament:
1.) Gospel of the kingdom/gospel of the circumcision VS the gospel of the grace of God/gospel of the uncircumcision.
2.) The rapture of the body of Christ VS the re-gathering of Israel at the 2nd coming.
3.) The dispensation of the grace of God VS the time of Jacob's trouble (the tribulation).
4.) The ministry of the 12 apostles to the Jews VS the ministry of Paul to the Gentiles.
5.) The kingdom of heaven that will be established on the earth VS the kingdom of God in heavenly places.
6.) Christ as "a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" VS Christ "according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began".
7.) The Jews have their sins blotted out at the 2nd coming VS Gentiles having their sins blotted out at Calvary.
I have not seen any baptismal regeneration proponents acknowledge ANY of those divisions.
I have also never seen a baptismal regeneration proponent that believed in eternal security, which the Bible clearly teaches in John 3:15, 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 6:27, 6:40, 6:47, 10:28, Romans 6:22, 6:23, 8:31-39, 1 Timothy 1:16, Acts 13:38-39, Ephesians 1:13, 4:32, 1 John 1:2, 2:25, 5:11, 5:13, 5:20, Colossians 2:10, 2:13, 2 Timothy 2:9-13.
There are also several passages of scripture that baptismal regeneration proponents NEVER quote because these passages totally refute their heresy. Here are a few of such passages:
Acts 10:
[43] To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
[44] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 15:
[7] And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
[9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10] Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Galatians 3:
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Also, most baptismal regeneration proponents say that water baptism is the same thing as baptism into Christ. That is HERESY. Christ is NOT a tank of water, therefore baptism into water CANNOT be baptism into Christ. Baptism into Christ is done by the Holy Spirit through the faith of the operation of God....not by water baptism performed by a man.
1 Corinthians 12:
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Colossians 2:
[10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
It is also worth noting that the Bible never mentions baptism "into water", it is always said to be WITH water.
REFERENCES TO SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH WITHOUT WORKS:
Here are the verses that are used to say that water baptism is a requirement for salvation.
1.) "Born of water"
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Most baptismal regeneration proponents use "born of water" to mean water baptism. But that is obviously a private interpretation, just look at the context.
John 3:
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [Notice this is "born again", not "born again and again". This is ONE second birth.]
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [Nicodemus mistakes this for the first birth, the physical birth of a child out of the mother's womb.]
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [Based on the context, "born of water" is obviously referring to the FIRST birth.]
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh [There it is again, the first birth.]; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit [The second birth, "born again". If the baptismal regeneration proponents were correct, this would be a third birth.].
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
2.) "For the remission of sins"
Luke 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here, the problem is the little three letter word "FOR". Look at this excerpt from a previous post I did on baptismal regeneration heresy.
3.) He that believeth and is baptized
Acts 13:38-39
4.) Washing of water by the word.
Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Some baptismal regeneration proponents use Ephesians 5:25-27 to say that water baptism is what cleanses the body of Christ (the church). However, the word "baptism" is not used anywhere in the chapter. The sanctification and cleansing comes from "THE WORD", Paul just used "the washing of water" figuratively.
"That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word"
5.) Baptism doth also now save us
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Honestly I do not see how 1 Peter 3:21 helps the baptismal regeneration position. I think it CONDEMNS their position. 1 Peter 3:21 plainly states that water baptism only saves you in a "like figure", if it saves you in a life figure than that is not your REAL salvation, it is FIGURATIVE. Then it plainly states that it does not put away the filth of our flesh, our sins, but is the answer of a good conscience toward God. (which you cannot have if you are lost--Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. )
6.) Be baptized and wash away thy sins
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
As said in #5, water baptism is a "like figure" of the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but it is not REAL. ("not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God"). It is figurative ("the like figure").
Our REAL salvation that REALLY washes away our sins is the blood of Christ!
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Unless the water in the baptistery is the blood of Christ, it will not wash away our sins.
--Eli "Hoss" Caldwell
There are at least seven different baptisms in the Bible and if you look at each on of them you will notice that "baptize" does not always mean "immerse".
#1.) God pouring out the flood in judgment [a water pouring with the end result being immersion] according to 1 Peter 3:20-21. ("baptism doth ALSO NOW")
#2.) The identification of the Israelites with Moses, God's messenger. (1 Corinthians 10:1-2) There was no immersion, the baptism was completely dry.
#3.) Water baptism as a "like figure" of the washing away of sins (Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, 1 Peter 3:21, Matthew 3, etc.)
#4.) Baptism with fire, another judgement baptism. This one being into hell fire (Matthew 3:10-12, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, Revelation 20:15).
#5.) Baptism of suffering/death (Matthew 20:22, Mark 10:38, Luke 12:50).
#6.) Baptism BY Christ WITH the Holy Ghost ONTO a person for power (Matthew 3:11, Acts 2:38, Ezekiel 36:27, Joel 2:28, Jeremiah 32:39, Acts 8:15-17, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:6, etc.)
#7.) Baptism BY the Spirit WITH a person INTO Christ, an "operation of God" (Colossians 2:10-12, 1 Corinthians 12:12-13, Galatians 3:26-28, Romans 6:3-4, Eph. 4:5).
Most proponents of the baptismal regeneration heresy do not acknowledge the apostle Paul as the distinct "apostle to the Gentiles", "the pattern to them which should hereafter believe", and the one who Christ dispensed the revelation of the mystery and gospel of the grace of God to (Romans 11:13, Galatians 1:11-12, Galatians 2:7-8, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, 2 Timothy 2:7, 2 Timothy 2:15, Ephesians 3:1-9, Romans 16:25-26, Colossians 1:25-27, Ephesians 5:22-32, 1 Timothy 1:12-16, Romans 11:25, 1 Corinthians 3:10, 1 Corinthians 4:16, 1 Corinthians 11:1-2, 1 Corinthians 4:1, etc.).
Most baptismal regeneration proponents pretend to follow Christ and Peter, yet they do not follow their command to sell all possessions that we see so frequently in the Gospels and Acts. (Matthew 19:16-23, Mark 10:21, Luke 12:21-33, Mark 6:7-9, Matthew 6:11, Matthew 6:25-34, Luke 9:1-4, Acts 2:44-46, Acts 3:2-6, Acts 4:32-37, Acts 5:1-11)
Most baptismal regeneration proponents do not acknowledge that Peter taught that the blotting out of sins would occur at the 2nd coming of Christ, Acts 3:19-21....in accordance with Jeremiah 31:31-34, 32:37-42, Ezekiel 36:24-33, and Romans 11:25-27. Of course this is talking about Israel, not the body of Christ. What we call "church age doctrine" was revealed to Paul first, not Peter. (Eph. 3:1-9, Gal 2:7-8, Col. 1:24-27, 1 Cor. 4:1, Rom. 16:25).
Most baptismal regeneration proponents reject "rightly dividing the word of truth" as we are commanded in 2 Timothy 2:15.
Here are the key divisions in the New Testament:
1.) Gospel of the kingdom/gospel of the circumcision VS the gospel of the grace of God/gospel of the uncircumcision.
2.) The rapture of the body of Christ VS the re-gathering of Israel at the 2nd coming.
3.) The dispensation of the grace of God VS the time of Jacob's trouble (the tribulation).
4.) The ministry of the 12 apostles to the Jews VS the ministry of Paul to the Gentiles.
5.) The kingdom of heaven that will be established on the earth VS the kingdom of God in heavenly places.
6.) Christ as "a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" VS Christ "according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began".
7.) The Jews have their sins blotted out at the 2nd coming VS Gentiles having their sins blotted out at Calvary.
I have not seen any baptismal regeneration proponents acknowledge ANY of those divisions.
I have also never seen a baptismal regeneration proponent that believed in eternal security, which the Bible clearly teaches in John 3:15, 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, 6:27, 6:40, 6:47, 10:28, Romans 6:22, 6:23, 8:31-39, 1 Timothy 1:16, Acts 13:38-39, Ephesians 1:13, 4:32, 1 John 1:2, 2:25, 5:11, 5:13, 5:20, Colossians 2:10, 2:13, 2 Timothy 2:9-13.
There are also several passages of scripture that baptismal regeneration proponents NEVER quote because these passages totally refute their heresy. Here are a few of such passages:
Acts 10:
[43] To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
[44] While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
[47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
[48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 15:
[7] And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
[9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10] Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Galatians 3:
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Also, most baptismal regeneration proponents say that water baptism is the same thing as baptism into Christ. That is HERESY. Christ is NOT a tank of water, therefore baptism into water CANNOT be baptism into Christ. Baptism into Christ is done by the Holy Spirit through the faith of the operation of God....not by water baptism performed by a man.
1 Corinthians 12:
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Colossians 2:
[10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
It is also worth noting that the Bible never mentions baptism "into water", it is always said to be WITH water.
REFERENCES TO SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH WITHOUT WORKS:
John 1:7
John 1:12-13
John 3:15-18
John 3:36
John 5:24
John 6:29
John 6:35
John 6:40
John 6:47
John 8:24
John 11:25-26
John 12:46
John 20:31
Acts 2:21
Acts 4:12
Acts 4:32-33
Acts 5:14
Acts 8:37
Acts 10:43-45
Acts 11:17
Acts 15:7-11
Acts 13:38-39
Acts 16:30-31
Acts 26:18
Acts 26:18
Ephesians 1:7
Ephesians 1:13
Ephesians 2:8-9
Ephesians 3:16-17
Ephesians 4:30
Ephesians 4:32
Philippians 3:3-9
Colossians 1:13-14
Colossians 2:6-23
1 Thessaloninas 4:14
1 Timothy 1:16
1 Timothy 2:3-6
2 Timothy 1:9
Galatians 2:16-21
Galatians 3:1-26
Romans 3:10-31
Romans 4:1-25
Romans 5:1-21
Romans 8:8
Romans 10:4-13
Romans 11:6
1 Corinthians 1:17-21
1 Corinthians 2:1-2
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Titus 3:5
1 John 1:9
1 John 3:23
1 John 5:1
1 John 5:5
1 John 5:10
1 John 5:13
NOW FOR THE "BAPTISMAL REGENERATION" REFUTATION:
Here are the verses that are used to say that water baptism is a requirement for salvation.
1.) "Born of water"
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Most baptismal regeneration proponents use "born of water" to mean water baptism. But that is obviously a private interpretation, just look at the context.
John 3:
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [Notice this is "born again", not "born again and again". This is ONE second birth.]
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? [Nicodemus mistakes this for the first birth, the physical birth of a child out of the mother's womb.]
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [Based on the context, "born of water" is obviously referring to the FIRST birth.]
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh [There it is again, the first birth.]; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit [The second birth, "born again". If the baptismal regeneration proponents were correct, this would be a third birth.].
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
2.) "For the remission of sins"
Luke 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here, the problem is the little three letter word "FOR". Look at this excerpt from a previous post I did on baptismal regeneration heresy.
"The COC position, baptismal regeneration, is largely based on a misinterpretation of Acts 2:38. They believe that the phrase "for the remission of sins" means "in order to get the remission of sins". However, that is AGAINST the context. When did Christ ever say that water gave people the remission of sins? Would that not make the preacher (that is baptizing us) some sort of priest that has to do something for us so that we may get to heaven? Would that not make salvation between a sinner, a preacher, and Christ rather than just the sinner and Christ?
Here are some irrefutable facts about Acts 2: Peter knew nothing about the dispensation of grace, The body of Christ, the pre-trib rapture of the body of Christ, complete salvation before the 2nd coming (he thought it came at the 2nd coming), Peter would not preach to Gentiles without Jews present until Israel repented (Luke 24:47), Peter did not preach that Christ died for sins in Acts 2 (he only preached a murder charge against the Jews), Peter and the apostles were still keeping the law (Acts 2:46, Acts 10:1-14, Acts 15), those in Acts 2 were keeping Christ's commandment to sell all that they had (Matthew 19:16-23, Matthew 10:9-10, Acts 2:44-45, Acts 4:34-37, 5:1-11).
Those are irrefutable facts about Acts 2.
Also, the plan of salvation was already given before verse 38....
Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Then Peter proves that Christ rose from the dead and is God and King over Israel (v. 22-36). So before we even get to verse 38 the plan of salvation has been given. Now look at verses 37-38.
"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Clearly these Jews had already called on the name of the Lord and believed that Christ was God and King over Israel, or else they would not have felt "pricked in their heart". These Jews did not ask "what shall we do to be saved" because Peter already declared in verse 21 that "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved". What these Jews ARE ASKING is what should they do now....since they crucified their Messiah, which was Peter's charge against them (Acts 2:22-36).
The answer to that was the following:
1.) Repent of it
2.) Get water baptized to answer God with a good conscience (1 Peter 3:21) which you cannot do if you are not already saved (Titus 1:15).
"FOR the remission of sins" does not mean "to obtain the remission of sins". It means 'BECAUSE OF' the remission of sins......look at the references yourself.
Those are irrefutable facts about Acts 2.
Also, the plan of salvation was already given before verse 38....
Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Then Peter proves that Christ rose from the dead and is God and King over Israel (v. 22-36). So before we even get to verse 38 the plan of salvation has been given. Now look at verses 37-38.
"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Clearly these Jews had already called on the name of the Lord and believed that Christ was God and King over Israel, or else they would not have felt "pricked in their heart". These Jews did not ask "what shall we do to be saved" because Peter already declared in verse 21 that "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved". What these Jews ARE ASKING is what should they do now....since they crucified their Messiah, which was Peter's charge against them (Acts 2:22-36).
The answer to that was the following:
1.) Repent of it
2.) Get water baptized to answer God with a good conscience (1 Peter 3:21) which you cannot do if you are not already saved (Titus 1:15).
"FOR the remission of sins" does not mean "to obtain the remission of sins". It means 'BECAUSE OF' the remission of sins......look at the references yourself.
Bring forth therefore fruits meet FOR repentance . . . --Matt. 3:4
Offer the gift that Moses commanded, FOR a testimony unto them . . . -- Matt. 8:3, 4
They cried FOR fear . . . --Matt. 14:26
Offer FOR thy cleansing those things which Moses commanded . . . -- Mark 1:11
They could not come nigh unto him FOR the press . . . --Mark 2:4
He looked . . . being grieved FOR the hardness of their hearts . . . -- Mark 3:3
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized everyone of you IN THE NAME of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins . . . --Acts 2:38
The word "for" means different things. It CAN mean "in order to obtain", but that is not what it means in Acts 2:38. As seen above, in the context of Acts 2:38 it means "because of". The Jews had already called upon God from their heart and were already saved.
Here is a perfect illustration of this.
Luke 5:12-14: "And it came to pass, when he was in a certain city, behold a man full of leprosy: who seeing Jesus fell on his face, and besought him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And he put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will: be thou clean. And immediately the leprosy departed from him. And he charged him to tell no man: but go, and shew thyself to the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them."
The man with leprosy represents a sinner. He then saw Jesus and called upon the name of the Lord, then Christ healed him. Then the man was to go and offer FOR his cleansing, that is BECAUSE OF.
What the COC's have done is they have built an entire system of theology based on a verse that they pulled out of context and didn't compare scripture with scripture on."
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
This statement is often presented by the "Church of Christ" as the plan of salvation when it is NOT. Mark 16 and Matthew 28 are apostolic commissions, not the revealings of a plan of salvation (Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:15). The reason Christ told the 12 apostles "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" is because He was SENDING THEM TO BAPTIZE (Matthew 28:19--Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:). However, Christ makes it clear that BELIEVING is the only issue as far as salvation is concerned...."he that BELIEVETH NOT shall be damned", Christ did not say "he that believeth and is baptized not shall be damned". The issue is believing.
Second, the statement "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" is a TRUE statement. He that believeth and stands on his head will be saved! He that believeth and jumps on a pogo stick will be saved!....because they BELIEVED.
Believing is the only requirement for salvation.....
John 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 3:
[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
There is no mixture of works with believing because when you believe the gospel (1 Cor. 15:1-4) you are sealed with the Spirit until the rapture.
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. (NO WATER THERE)
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (NO WATER THERE)
Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (NO "REPENT AND BE BUPTIZED" THERE)
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (NO WATER THERE)
1 Corinthians 1:17a, 21b
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.....it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (DEFINITELY NO WATER BUPTISM THERE)
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (NO WATER THERE)
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, (NO WATER THERE)
Ephesians 2:
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. (NO WATER THERE)
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. (NO WATER THERE)
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (NO WATER THERE)
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (NO WATER THERE)
Titus 3:4-7
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (NO WATER THERE)
4.) Washing of water by the word.
Ephesians 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Some baptismal regeneration proponents use Ephesians 5:25-27 to say that water baptism is what cleanses the body of Christ (the church). However, the word "baptism" is not used anywhere in the chapter. The sanctification and cleansing comes from "THE WORD", Paul just used "the washing of water" figuratively.
"That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word"
5.) Baptism doth also now save us
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Honestly I do not see how 1 Peter 3:21 helps the baptismal regeneration position. I think it CONDEMNS their position. 1 Peter 3:21 plainly states that water baptism only saves you in a "like figure", if it saves you in a life figure than that is not your REAL salvation, it is FIGURATIVE. Then it plainly states that it does not put away the filth of our flesh, our sins, but is the answer of a good conscience toward God. (which you cannot have if you are lost--Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. )
6.) Be baptized and wash away thy sins
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
As said in #5, water baptism is a "like figure" of the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but it is not REAL. ("not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God"). It is figurative ("the like figure").
Our REAL salvation that REALLY washes away our sins is the blood of Christ!
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Unless the water in the baptistery is the blood of Christ, it will not wash away our sins.
--Eli "Hoss" Caldwell
Friday, November 14, 2014
Hoss vs Finnel: Baptism into water or baptism into Christ?
Here is a dispute between Steve Finnel and myself. Mr. Finnel left a comment on one of my posts saying that water baptism is a requirement for salvation and he left me his blog link. He calls himself a "keyboard evangelist" and he knows nothing about the authority of the King James Bible nor rightly dividing the word of truth.
My messages in green font, Mr. Finnel's in red. --Eli "Hoss" Caldwell
Mr. Finnel,
I looked at your blog some today....I see you love to quote Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, and Galatians 3:27. (that seems to be the extent of your "proof texts")
I noticed your post on being baptized into Christ. You made a very sad and naïve error.
Baptism into Christ is NOT baptism into water...why? Because Christ is not water.
BAPTISM INTO CHRIST IS DONE BY THE HOLY SPIRIT THROUGH THE FAITH OF THE OPERATON OF GOD.
1 Corinthians 12:
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Colossians 2:
[10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
You failed to even mention these passages of scripture. You cannot talk about baptism into Christ without talking about 1 Corinthians 12:13. You are a deceiver. You quoted passages about water baptism and then pretended like that was the same thing as baptism into Christ. Is Christ a tank of water? NO! So baptism into water cannot be baptism into Christ.
Also, I noticed that you lied in at least one of your posts. You said that believing was a work because it was something we do, not God. HOWEVER, you plainly lied about this. The Bible plainly excludes believing from being a work.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
I realize that since you are trusting your own works for salvation that you are lost and "spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. 2:14), but please....you would have to be an idiot to think that believing was a work in light of Romans 4:5.
I also noticed that you like to quote many different CORRUPT "bibles", which means you do not have ONE final authority--you're like a kid in a candy store that can't make up his mind as to what he wants.
Also, your exposition of Ephesians 5 is utterly pathetic. The word "baptism" is not found anywhere in the chapter. Paul simply said that the word of God cleanses the church--he figuratively called this a "washing of water", BUT IT IS "BY THE WORD".
Mr. Finnel, do me a favor answer these questions:
1.) When do we receive the Holy Spirit?
2.) When do receive imputed righteousness?
3.) How can baptism into water be the same as baptism into Christ, since Christ is not water?
4.) Does water baptism put away the filth of the flesh?
5) Is water baptism a work?
6.) Are we made perfect by the flesh?
7.) How do we receive Christ?
8.) How come you never quote 1 Corinthians 12:13 when talking about baptism into Christ?
9.) Is salvation a free gift?
10.) How come you use "bibles" that call Joseph the father of Christ and attack His deity?
11.) How come you do not have a final authority, one bible that you accept as the perfect word of God?
Can you answer those? --Eli "Hoss" Caldwell
RE: Steve Finnel
Hoss, you have (to) honestly be seeking God's truth to find it. Prayer is essential . In Christ Steve
RE: Steve Finnel
Hoss, you have (to) honestly be seeking God's truth to find it. Prayer is essential . In Christ Steve
RE: Hoss
Buddy, I am not seeking God's truth....I ALREADY HAVE IT. Christ saves you as you are, He does not say "go wash up first".
Acts 13:38-39
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. (NO WATER THERE)
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (NO WATER THERE)
Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (NO "REPENT AND BE BUPTIZED" THERE)
Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: (NO WATER THERE)
1 Corinthians 1:17a, 21b
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel.....it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (NO WATER BUPTISM THERE)
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (NO WATER THERE)
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, (NO WATER THERE)
Ephesians 2:
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. (NO WATER THERE)
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. (NO WATER THERE)
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (NO WATER THERE)
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (NO WATER THERE)
Titus 3:4-7
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (NO WATER THERE)
Mr. Finnel, I am trying to show you the error of your baptismal regeneration heresy. I will answer the questions for you, with SCRIPTURE.
1.) When do we receive the Holy Spirit?
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Galatians 3:
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Acts 15:
[7] And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
[9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10] Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Galatians 3:
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Acts 15:
[7] And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
[9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10] Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
[11] But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
2.) When do receive imputed righteousness?
Romans 4:
[1] What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
[2] For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
[3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
[4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:
[24] But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
[25] Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Philippians 3:
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Romans 4:
[1] What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
[2] For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
[3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
[4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:
[24] But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
[25] Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Philippians 3:
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
3.) How can baptism into water be the same as baptism into Christ, since Christ is not water?
They are not the same. Baptism into water is baptism into water. Baptism into Christ is the Holy Spirit putting you in Christ through the faith of the operation of God.
1 Corinthians 12:
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Colossians 2:
[10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
They are not the same. Baptism into water is baptism into water. Baptism into Christ is the Holy Spirit putting you in Christ through the faith of the operation of God.
1 Corinthians 12:
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Colossians 2:
[10] And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
[11] In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[12] Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
4.) Does water baptism put away the filth of the flesh?
1 Peter 3:21 plainly states that water baptism only saves you in a "like figure", if it saves you in a life figure than that is not your REAL salvation, it is FIGURATIVE. Then it plainly states that it does not put away the filth of our flesh, our sins, but is the answer of a good conscience toward God. (which you cannot have if you are lost--Titus 1:15)
1 Peter 3:21 plainly states that water baptism only saves you in a "like figure", if it saves you in a life figure than that is not your REAL salvation, it is FIGURATIVE. Then it plainly states that it does not put away the filth of our flesh, our sins, but is the answer of a good conscience toward God. (which you cannot have if you are lost--Titus 1:15)
5) Is water baptism a work?
Yes.
Yes.
6.) Are we made perfect by the flesh?
No.
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Galatians 3:
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
No.
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Galatians 3:
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
7.) How do we receive Christ?
Galatians 2:
[16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[17] But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
[18] For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
[19] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[21] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 2:
[16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[17] But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
[18] For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
[19] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[21] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
8.) How come you never quote 1 Corinthians 12:13 when talking about baptism into Christ?
Because it exposes the baptismal regeneration heresy as completely FALSE.
Because it exposes the baptismal regeneration heresy as completely FALSE.
9.) Is salvation a free gift?
Yes.
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 5:
[15] But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[16] And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Ephesians 2:
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Yes.
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 5:
[15] But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[16] And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[17] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Ephesians 2:
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10.) How come you use "bibles" that call Joseph the father of Christ and attack His deity?
(From my post, "Perversions, Part 2")
1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 8:
[43] Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
[46] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
[47] He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
John 10:1-5, 26-27
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.....But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
1 Corinthians 2:
[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
[10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
[11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
[12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
11.) How come you do not have a final authority, one bible that you accept as the perfect word of God?
(From my post, "Perversions, Part 2")
Why would anyone use a PERVERSION of the word of God instead of God perfectly preserved word of God, the King James Bible? Any saved person will be able to look at these perversions and be able to discern that the King James Bible is the pure word of God, not the corrupt modern versions that are based on the Egyptian Greek manuscripts.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
John 8:
[43] Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
[44] Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
[45] And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
[46] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
[47] He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
John 10:1-5, 26-27
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.....But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
1 Corinthians 2:
[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
[10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
[11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
[12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
11.) How come you do not have a final authority, one bible that you accept as the perfect word of God?
Because it allows you to pick and choose which verses/readings you like from each version rather than being subject to ONE authority. (see answer to #10)
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