Sure, feel free to comment as much as you like. As I said I enjoy it. Also we can discuss through email if you like. hosscartwright1611@gmail.com
The Bible defines believing as NOT being a work (Rom. 4:5, Eph. 2:8-9). Therefore "believing" is not "earning" the "free gift".....it is RECIVING the gift.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name
Someone can offer you a "free gift" (Rom. 5:v15, v16, v18) but if you say "I don't want this" then you "receive it not" and reject the gift. You do not have to work for a free gift, but you do have to receive it according to John 1:12 + logic. :)
You said, "Believing or faith without works is DEAD, it's useless, just as James has said, therefore it's works."......James was written to the 12 tribes scattered abroad (James 1:1) before the revelations of the mystery and the gospel of the uncircumcision which were revealed to Paul first by Christ (Gal. 1:11-12, 2:7-8, 1 Tim. 1:11-16, Rom. 16:25, 1 Cor. 4:1, Eph. 3:1-9). James 5:1-11 shows that it is written in the context of the scattered Jews in the tribulation enduring to the end. They are waiting for the 2nd coming of Christ and condemning the rich men for hoarding money for the "last days". The rich men are condemned in the book of James because in the tribulation period you CANNOT be rich and be saved because in order to have riches you also have to have the mark of the beast (Rev. 13:17 )
James 5:
[1] Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
[2] Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
[3] Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
[4] Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
[5] Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
[6] Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
[7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
[8] Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
[9] Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
[10] Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
[11] Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
Revelation 6:
[12] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
[13] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
[14] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
The reason James says that a man is not justified by faith, but by faith plus works is because he (and the other 11 apostles) were told that they would be going through the great tribulation and would have to endure to the end of it without denying the true Christ (Matthew 10:1-34, 24:3-34).
Which is also why you will find Peter preaching that redemption comes at the 2nd coming of Christ and establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth....
Acts 3:
[19] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
[20] And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
[21] Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
1 Peter 1:
[3] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
[4] To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
[6] Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
[7] That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
[8] Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
[9] Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Which is in fulfillment of OT prophecy as found in Jeremiah 31:31-40, 32:36-42, 33:3-9, Ezekiel 11:14-21, 36:12-35.
And since tribulation salvation will be based on an enduring faith, that is also why some people will "scarcely be saved" according to 1 Peter 4:18.
However, in the "day of salvation" "under grace" (Rom. 6:14, 2 Cor. 1:1-2) which is to say the present age: we are not saved by an enduring faith. We are not going through the tribulation and we will still be saved even if we deny the Lord.
2 Timothy 2:
[11] It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
[12] If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[13] If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
We can lose rewards and inheritance, but not salvation because for Christ to deny us salvation would be to "deny himself"--because we are "members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones" (Eph. 5:30).
I am about to do a blog post along those topics ("rightly dividing the word of truth" 2 Tim. 2:15) and so that is enough of that for now.
So no, belief does not "become a work" and it is not a work. Believing in not a work according to Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:8-9 as I stated in previous comments. Believing is not "earning" a gift, it is "receiving" a gift (John 1:12).
By the way, James 2 did not say that faith was a work, it said that faith without works is dead--because it doesn't cloth the poor or feed the hungry (James 2:15). Which is also another proof that James was written to future tribulation believers--the followers of Christ will not be able to buy or sell which would make them very poor. That is why Christ commanded them to have all things common and sell all that they had (Matt. 18:19, Matthew 19:16-23, Mark 10:21, Luke 12:21-33, Mark 6:7-9, Matthew 6:11, Matthew 6:25-34, Luke 9:1-4, Acts 2:44-46, Acts 3:2-6, Acts 4:32-37, Acts 5:1-11). However, Paul told us to work on our own and not eat other peoples bread and to mind our own business (2 Thes. 3:7-12).
Thanks, --bro. Eli "Hoss" Caldwell
Well brother Hoss, no disciple of Jesus Christ our Lord enjoys the correction of the Lord including me. It is painful and uncomfortable, but if we endure it we will be lead into ALL the truth.
ReplyDeleteThe Lord Jesus is good, He does not lead us astray, but He equips us so that we can give to each one a reasonable answer for the hope that is within us.
You said,
"The Bible defines believing as NOT being a work (Rom. 4:5, Eph. 2:8-9). Therefore "believing" is not "earning" the "free gift".....it is RECEIVING the gift.
John 1:12 “But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name
Someone can offer you a "free gift" (Rom. 5:v15, v16, v18) but if you say "I don't want this" then you "receive it not" and reject the gift. You do not have to work for a free gift, but you do have to receive it according to John 1:12 + logic. :)"
Hoss, it's not exactly like that, in fact it's a lot better than that.
You see, a free gift is that which is in your possession and not that which is in someone else's possession.
If there is a free gift somewhere, it might not be yours; if you take it, you would be considered to be a thief, and you know that the Lord doesn't like thieves.
A free gift is not offered! remember, it is that which is in your possession, and that is eternal life as a free gift.
If something is offered, that is called an offering.
For an offering you must DO something to have it in your possession, and whatever you DO is called WORK.
If you take it, it's yours, if you don't take it, it's not yours, it is as simply as that.
The Lord Jesus has given the free gift of life, which is eternal, only to his children. They have done nothing for it, they just received it as a free gift of God. They didn't take it or steal it, they RECEIVED it just as John 1:12 said, "But as many as RECEIVED Him."
Noticed, it is a statement, stating that those who have received, (past thence)!
Well brother, that is better than logic, it is for all those who have ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches :-)
This answer was to your explanation, perhaps in the next comment I will demonstrate the salvation by works.
Okay....I didn't use "logic" I used scripture.
DeleteAs for John 1:11-12, it is talking about those that Christ offered the free gift of salvation BUT SOME REJECTED HIM, AND SOME RECIEVED HIM.
John 1:
[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (REJECTED)
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (RECIEVED)
You said
"You see, a free gift is that which is in your possession and not that which is in someone else's possession. If there is a free gift somewhere, it might not be yours; if you take it, you would be considered to be a thief, and you know that the Lord doesn't like thieves. A free gift is not offered! remember, it is that which is in your possession, and that is eternal life as a free gift. "
If that is the case then we are all in trouble. Because NONE OF US have always had salvation in our possession! And if it is "not offered" then we will all end up in hell.
Thankfully what you said is not true. If something is a "free gift" then it was NOT ours, but then someone gave it to us.
Question: Have you ever gotten a Christmas present that you did not have to take or receive? Was it already "in your possession" or did you have to receive the gift? A "GIFT" is never something that was already yours!
Here is the gift:
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You can either receive it or reject it:
John 1:
[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Romans 5:15-18 calls this a "free gift". Believing is not working or earning anything, it is simply what the Bible calls "receiving" the free gift.
Ephesians 2:
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
I have irrefutably proved that believing is not working or earning, it is simply receiving. I gave you the verses on it and there is nothing you can say that will change my position on that. By the way, the phrase "OFFER gifts" is used at least twice in the Bible (Eze. 20:31, Ps. 72:10).
Also, nobody was in Christ before the foundation of the world. You were an enemy of God, child of wrath, child of disobedience, the wrath of God abided on you, and you were not known of God, until you believed on Christ. (Eph. 2:1-3, John 3:36, Gal. 4:9, Rom. 5:10).
Brother Hoss, I can see that you are struggling with the salvation concept.
ReplyDeleteIt is not that complicated as long as we rightly divide the word of truth.
I see that salvation is divided in the Scriptures.
First; there is only one salvation which is a free gift by grace alone and that is being born from a spiritually dead state to be alive (born again), it is life and everlasting life (eternal). That is the only salvation where we have no say, and no choice etc.
Now that salvation is only given to the Lords children and not to the devils children.
Second; there is the salvation which is for everyone, for Gods children and for the devils children alike, for everyone who is willing to BELIEVE, and put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ and to DO what He says. That is called salvation by works, by believing, faith, trust and doing what the Lord and the Scriptures say.
For God wants ALL to be saved and no one to perish.
That salvation is not eternal, and only for natural things, like being saved from sickness, cancer, blindness, from calamities and the wrath of God etc.
Example, (Luke 18:32) "And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee."
It is obvious that this blind man was saved from physical (natural) blindness and not from spiritual blindness, it doesn't say or indicate that the blind man was saved from a spiritually dead state to a born again new life of the Spirit.
(James 5:15) 'The prayer of faith saves the sick', (1 Tim.2:15. + Mat.10:22. + Mark 16:16. + Luke 1:71.), all those passages and many more relating to natural salvation, and everyone who believes in Jesus will be saved (John 3:18).
Now that is as clear as it can get, that a man is saved by what he does.
Come to Jesus and be saved, don't come to Jesus and you will perish.
Do what Jesus says and be saved, don't DO what Jesus said and you will perish.
That is simple and easy for everyone to understand and DO, so that everyone is without excuse.
Kind regards your brother Paul
And a Merry Christmas and a good new year!
Okay Sir, NO I AM NOT "STRUGGLING WITH THE SALVATION CONCEPT".
DeleteI keep giving you scripture for what I believe and you have not refuted it. Instead you've given me Calvinistic logic that makes no sense at all and is contrary to scripture.
Yes we do have a choice in salvation and we are told to believe in order to be saved (John 1:7, John 1:12-13, John 3:15-18, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:29, John 6:35, John 6:40, John 6:47, John 8:24, John 11:25-26, John 12:46, John 20:31, Acts 4:12, Acts 4:32-33, Acts 5:14, Acts 8:37, Acts 10:43-45, Acts 11:17, Acts 15:7-11, Acts 13:38-39, Acts 16:30-31, Acts 26:18, Ephesians 1:7, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 2:8-9, Ephesians 3:16-17, Ephesians 4:30, Ephesians 4:32, Philippians 3:3-9, Colossians 1:13-14, Colossians 2:6-23, 1 Thessaloninas 4:14, 1 Timothy 1:16, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 2 Timothy 1:9, Galatians 2:16-21, Galatians 3:1-26, Romans 3:10-31, Romans 4:1-25, Romans 5:1-21, Romans 8:8, Romans 10:1-5, Romans 11:6, 1 Corinthians 1:17-21,1 Corinthians 2:1-2, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Titus 3:5, 1 John 3:23, 1 John 5:1, 1 John 5:5, 1 John 5:10, 1 John 5:13)
Believing is said NOT to be a work (Eph. 2:8-9, Rom. 4:5)
You have not always been a son of God. You were a child of the devil, child of wrath, in Adam, child of disobedience, and God did not know you until you put your faith in Him. You had to be ADOPTED. (Eph. 2:1-3, 1 Cor. 15:22, Rom. 8:14-16, Gal. 4:1-9, John 8:44).
NO, you were not magically forced to be born again. YOU HAD TO TRUST CHRIST AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL--then indwelt by the Holy Spirit:
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
The difference between you and me as that I believe that I had to get saved by trusting what Christ did for me (1 Cor. 15:1-4, Acts 13:38-39) BUT YOU believe that you did not have to believe on Christ--you think that you just had to REALIZE that you already were saved before the foundation of the world--even though you were not known of God (Gal. 4:9).
My position is completely backed by scripture while yours rests on Calvin's foolish logic.
You're two salvations thing does not make sense. Yes there is physical salvation for the human body, physical salvation for a ministry, etc. BUT NONE OF THOSE have anything to do with the salvation of a soul.
Your position on salvation of the soul lacks SCRIPTURE. Mine does not. I will stick to the Bible, you can stick to Calvin and " what the Spirit says to the churches" :)
Lol. I am not mad, I was just being blunt (2 Cor. 11:6). I hope you have a merry Christmas and happy New Year! --bro. Eli "Hoss" Caldwell
Brother..this Calvinist is out of order honestly...you are very balanced and calm..I am absolutely astounded at the trickery and deception of that Calvinist system...
ReplyDeleteGood on ya Hoss!