The Acts 28ers strain at a gnat and swallow a camel when they take their position. They see Paul quote the OT and then they assume he did not have the revelation of the mystery until after Acts 28. However, Paul clearly teaches the body of Christ in Romans 12, and 1 Corinthians 6, 10, and 12.
The root of the Acts 28ers problem is that they think everything about the dispensation of grace had to be a mystery, but the truth of the matter is that the "mystery" is that all Jews and Gentiles are put in one spiritual body by a new gospel and given a new hope. (1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1, Rom. 16, Eph. 3)
They do not believe that 1 Corinthians 12 can be talking about the body of Christ of Ephesians and Colossians because it involves spiritual gifts. However, that does not contradict anything about the revelation of the mystery, it simply goes along with the "provoking" ministry of Paul to the Jews until God laid them aside for good until the tribulation period starts (or at least until the rapture happens), see Romans 9, 10, and 11 on that.
The 28ers think they have 1 Corinthians 12 all figured out. They do not and this post will completely refute their position because what I am about to say is completely unquestionable, undeniable, and irrefutable.
The most basic interpretation of the passage is this: Paul is telling the Corinthians that they all have different gifts with different functionality, but all the believers are the body of Christ and they all need to function as one body. That all believers have different jobs, but all are members of Christ in the body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:
[1] Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
[2] Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[3] Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[4] Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[6] And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[7] But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
[8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
[9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
[10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
[11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Like I said, Paul is telling the Corinthians that they all have different gifts with different functionality, but all the believers are the body of Christ and they all need to function as one body. That all believers have different jobs, but all are members of Christ in the body of Christ.
[12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
[13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[14] For the body is not one member, but many.
I was right. Paul tells the Corinthians that as the human body is one body with many members and each member has its own purpose, "so also is Christ". The body of Christ is one body, has many members with different functions, but all of them work together and function as one body. They got into this body by the baptism by the Spirit.
[15] If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[16] And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
[17] If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
[18] But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
[19] And if they were all one member, where were the body?
[20] But now are they many members, yet but one body.
[21] And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
[22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
[23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
[24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:
[25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
[26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
[27] Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
[28] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
[29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
[30] Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
[31] But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Like I said, "Paul is telling the Corinthians that they all have different gifts with different functionality, but all the believers are the body of Christ and they all need to function as one body. That all believers have different jobs, but all are members of Christ in the body of Christ."
That is irrefutable and I am completely right about that. There is no refuting or questioning that. There is only "one body" according to Ephesians 4:5, and Paul is talking about it in 1 Corinthians 12. He also talks about it in chapters 6 and 10 as well as Romans 12. This is all to irrefutable and undeniable because it is complete FACT sitting right here in my King James Bible.
Have a nice day! -- Bro. Hoss
King James Bible believing (Ps. 12:6-7) Gospel of the Grace of God (Acts 20:24, 1 Cor. 15:1-4) Faith Alone (Eph. 1:7, 1:13, 2:8-9) Pre-Millennial (Rev. 19-20) Pre-Tribulation Rapture (1 Thes. 1:10) Mid-Acts Dispensational Right Division (2 Tim. 2:15, Eph. 3:1-9) anti-Darwinism (Exod 20:11, 31:17) one baptism (Eph. 4:5, 1 Cor. 1:17, 12:13) no signs for today anti-Charismatic (1 Cor. 13:8-13) against the sinner's prayer (John 9:31, Isa. 59:1-2) against the Flat Earth Hoax (Isa. 40:22, Job 26:7)
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Tuesday, April 29, 2014
1 Corinthians 6:9-20
Here is an email I sent to someone in regards to 1 Corinthians 6:9-20.
I have already showed you how we are spiritually baptized into Christ and raised together with Him and seated with him. (Eph. 2:6, Col. 2:12)
I have already showed you how we are spiritually baptized into Christ and raised together with Him and seated with him. (Eph. 2:6, Col. 2:12)
1 Cor. 6:
[9] Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
[12] All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
[13] Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
[11] And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
[12] All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
[13] Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
[14] And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
[15] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.
[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
[15] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.
[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Now I really don't know what you are saying, but here is what I know about the passage.
1.) In verses 9-11 we see that Paul is telling them that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, then he lists some sins. BUT he says "such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God". As far as our spiritual standing is concerned we ARE washed, we ARE sanctified, etc., but we should walk in newness of life and live this out practically speaking (that sounded preachery eh?).
2.) I don't really understand some of 12-13, but I know Paul ends up saying that since they are washed, sanctified, etc. they are the Lord's and are not to serve their own lusts. God saved us and so we are His, we are to honor Him in our bodies. "Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body"
3.) Verse 14 states that God raised up Christ and he will raise us up as well, obviously referring to our bodies at the rapture.
4.) Verse 15 states that our bodies are the members of Christ i.e. "Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body". We are the Lord's, we are "bought" according to v.20. The Corinthians were saved (v.11) and they were the Lord's and are said to be members of Christ. They were engaged in fornication and so Paul says "shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid."
5.) Verse 16 and 17 are self explanatory. "What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." We are joined unto the Lord and are "one spirit". Therefore the Corinthians are told in v.18 to "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body."
6.) 19-20 states "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." We are the temple of the Holy Ghost and we are bought with a price, we are not our own and should not serve our own lusts.
We are "members of Christ" and "joined unto the Lord" by us being sealed with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what joined us unto the Lord and we got this when we believed the gospel (1 Cor. 15:1-4) and trusted Christ rather than ourselves (Eph. 2:8-9). At that moment we were "joined unto the Lord" and made a "member of Christ" by being "sealed with the Spirit" (Eph. 1:13, 4:30).
We did not get this by water baptism.......it is a baptism "by the Spirit" according to 1 Corinthians 12:13.
Galatians 3:
[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
4:
[4] But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
[5] To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
[6] And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
[5] To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
[6] And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Monday, April 28, 2014
John 1:29
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Some use this verse to say that John preached the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. That is not true. Pastor David O'Steen offers this to refute that heresy that is being promoted.
"I noticed that Herb thinks Jn. 1:29 proves John the Baptist preached the cross. Most everybody reads the later revelation of Hebrews back into that verse. From his standpoint he would be referring to Rev. 6:16-17, i.e. takes away sin of the world in the sense of judging the world and bringing in His righteous kingdom.
John the Baptist preached "the wrath to come" not the sacrificial death of Christ. That interprets Jn. 1:29 for us. The prophecy of Isa. 53 wasn't understood until after the resurrection (Lk. 24)."
That is true, here are the references that Pastor O'Steen quoted.
Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luke 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Revelation 6:
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Not Isaiah 53........"he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed"
Nobody understood or knew about the sacrificial death of Christ until after the cross, not even the 12 apostles. In fact, Peter was saved and he believed that Jesus was Christ, the Son of the living God. But......he did not believe or understand the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ until after it was over.
Matthew 16:
[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
[21] From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
[22] Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
[23] But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Luke 24:
[44] And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
[45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
[46] And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
[47] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
[48] And ye are witnesses of these things.
[49] And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
When you see "whosoever believeth on him" in the book of John, it is not talking about the death, burial, and resurrection gospel. Peter did not even believe that in the gospels. Even after the death of Christ in the book of Acts Peter is preaching that there sins will be blotted out at the 2nd coming of Christ!
Acts 3:
[19] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
[20] And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
[21] Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
[22] For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
[23] And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
[24] Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
[25] Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
[26] Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Peter is looking forward to the 2nd coming of Christ and being brought into the earthly kingdom of Christ. He never looks back at the cross and preaches a heavenly hope and that our conversation is in heaven like Paul does with the grace age believers (Phil. 3:20-21)
Peter is looking forward to the 2nd coming of Christ and the setting up of the New Covenant when Christ blots out the sins of Israel.
Jeremiah 31:
[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Ezekiel 36:
[16] Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[17] Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
[18] Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
[19] And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
[20] And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.
[21] But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
[22] Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
[23] And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
[24] For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
[25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
[28] And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
That is what Peter is looking forward to. That is also what Jesus meant when He said "ye must be born again".
John.3
[1] There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
[9] Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[10] Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
That passage has nothing to do with believers in the body of Christ. Jesus was a minister of the circumcision preaching the earthly kingdom of God. We are a heavenly people seated in heavenly places and the earthly kingdom of Christ involves Israel.
Romans 15:18 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 2:6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Since Christ was preaching a gospel of the kingdom to Israel, how does "born again" fit into that? Well first we will look at a few references to "born again".
1 John 5
[1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
[2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Did you see that? "Whosoever is born of God SINNETH NOT", do you commit sin? Yes you do, so you are not born of God. Your just not.
Now, let's examine what Jesus said.
Note: In the first verse we see that Nicodemus is a "ruler of the Jews"
John 3:
[1] There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
[9] Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[10] Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Jesus said, "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again......Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?". Jesus said that Nicodemus SHOULD have known what He was talking about because he was a "master of Israel". Why would being a "master of Israel" help you know what "born again" was? Because Israel was supposed to be looking forward to being "born again" to enter the earthly kingdom of Christ.
Also, Jesus was talking to ONE man, but He told Nicodemus YE must be born again. "Ye" is plural, (like "Yall"), so Christ was talking about Israel as a nation being "born again". Nicodemus should have know this because it is in the Old Testament scriptures.
Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
So we know the one that is "born" is Israel, and we know that they are NOT going to commit sin. How is that?
Israel will be "born of God" (a second birth, "born again") through the New Covenant.
Jeremiah 31
[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Deuteronomy 30
[5] And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
[6] And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
[7] And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
[8] And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
[9] And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
Ezekiel 36
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
[28] And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
"Born again" describes Israel when the New Covenant is implemented after the tribulation period and all the Jewish remnants are gathered from the whole world and brought into the land of Israel for Christ to reign in Jerusalem in a literal kingdom on earth.
All of those things are promised to Israel, but not the body of Christ. Again we a HEAVENLY people with HEAVENLY blessings, not earthly.
Also see Isaiah 66:
[5] Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
[6] A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
[7] Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
[8] Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
[9] Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
[10] Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
[11] That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
[12] For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
[13] As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
[14] And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
[18] For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
[19] And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
[20] And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
[21] And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
[22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
So, I said all that to say that Peter and John knew nothing about the sacrificial death of Christ until after it was over and even then they were still looking forward to when Christ comes and kills all the bad people and brings in the Jews to the land and they will be born again "not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever"(1 Peter 1:23) . (see Isa. 66:8 and 22)
Paul is the only one who talks about Christ's death, burial, and resurrection as the complete gospel and he never uses the term "born again". Well that's it.
-Hoss
Matthew 16:
[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
[21] From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
[22] Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
[23] But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Luke 24:
[44] And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
[45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
[46] And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
[47] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
[48] And ye are witnesses of these things.
[49] And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
When you see "whosoever believeth on him" in the book of John, it is not talking about the death, burial, and resurrection gospel. Peter did not even believe that in the gospels. Even after the death of Christ in the book of Acts Peter is preaching that there sins will be blotted out at the 2nd coming of Christ!
Acts 3:
[19] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
[20] And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
[21] Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
[22] For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
[23] And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
[24] Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
[25] Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
[26] Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Peter is looking forward to the 2nd coming of Christ and being brought into the earthly kingdom of Christ. He never looks back at the cross and preaches a heavenly hope and that our conversation is in heaven like Paul does with the grace age believers (Phil. 3:20-21)
Peter is looking forward to the 2nd coming of Christ and the setting up of the New Covenant when Christ blots out the sins of Israel.
Jeremiah 31:
[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Ezekiel 36:
[16] Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[17] Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.
[18] Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:
[19] And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.
[20] And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.
[21] But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.
[22] Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
[23] And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
[24] For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
[25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
[28] And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
That is what Peter is looking forward to. That is also what Jesus meant when He said "ye must be born again".
John.3
[1] There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
[9] Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[10] Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
That passage has nothing to do with believers in the body of Christ. Jesus was a minister of the circumcision preaching the earthly kingdom of God. We are a heavenly people seated in heavenly places and the earthly kingdom of Christ involves Israel.
Romans 15:18 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 2:6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Since Christ was preaching a gospel of the kingdom to Israel, how does "born again" fit into that? Well first we will look at a few references to "born again".
1 John 5
[1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
[2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
[3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
[4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
Did you see that? "Whosoever is born of God SINNETH NOT", do you commit sin? Yes you do, so you are not born of God. Your just not.
Now, let's examine what Jesus said.
Note: In the first verse we see that Nicodemus is a "ruler of the Jews"
John 3:
[1] There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
[9] Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[10] Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Jesus said, "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again......Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?". Jesus said that Nicodemus SHOULD have known what He was talking about because he was a "master of Israel". Why would being a "master of Israel" help you know what "born again" was? Because Israel was supposed to be looking forward to being "born again" to enter the earthly kingdom of Christ.
Also, Jesus was talking to ONE man, but He told Nicodemus YE must be born again. "Ye" is plural, (like "Yall"), so Christ was talking about Israel as a nation being "born again". Nicodemus should have know this because it is in the Old Testament scriptures.
Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
So we know the one that is "born" is Israel, and we know that they are NOT going to commit sin. How is that?
Israel will be "born of God" (a second birth, "born again") through the New Covenant.
Jeremiah 31
[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
[33] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[34] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Deuteronomy 30
[5] And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
[6] And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
[7] And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
[8] And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
[9] And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
Ezekiel 36
[26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
[27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
[28] And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
"Born again" describes Israel when the New Covenant is implemented after the tribulation period and all the Jewish remnants are gathered from the whole world and brought into the land of Israel for Christ to reign in Jerusalem in a literal kingdom on earth.
All of those things are promised to Israel, but not the body of Christ. Again we a HEAVENLY people with HEAVENLY blessings, not earthly.
Also see Isaiah 66:
[5] Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.
[6] A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.
[7] Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.
[8] Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.
[9] Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.
[10] Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:
[11] That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.
[12] For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
[13] As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
[14] And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
[18] For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
[19] And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
[20] And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
[21] And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
[22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
So, I said all that to say that Peter and John knew nothing about the sacrificial death of Christ until after it was over and even then they were still looking forward to when Christ comes and kills all the bad people and brings in the Jews to the land and they will be born again "not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever"(1 Peter 1:23) . (see Isa. 66:8 and 22)
Paul is the only one who talks about Christ's death, burial, and resurrection as the complete gospel and he never uses the term "born again". Well that's it.
-Hoss
Ephesians 5:22-33
Here is an email I sent to a brother on Ephesians 5:22-33.
[23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
As the church is subject to Christ and His word, so should the wives be subject to their husbands. (notice the plurals)
[25] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
A husband should love his wife and give himself for her as Christ loved the church and gave himself for IT.
[26] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
[27] That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Second Corinthians chapter eleven verse two is a good cross reference to this " For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ"......and also 1 Cor. 6:15-17 "Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit."
[28] So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
[29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
[30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
[31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
[32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
[33] Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
Your logic is fascinating.........but.......
[22] Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
There is our context. (notice the plurals)
[23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
"The husband" is obviously used in a general since. Paul is talking about "husband" as a title, not a specific singular person or organization. In a marriage the husband has the title as "head" of the wife (as we say "head of the family) and Christ has the title "Head" of the body.
[24] Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
As the church is subject to Christ and His word, so should the wives be subject to their husbands. (notice the plurals)
[25] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
A husband should love his wife and give himself for her as Christ loved the church and gave himself for IT.
[26] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
[27] That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Second Corinthians chapter eleven verse two is a good cross reference to this " For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ"......and also 1 Cor. 6:15-17 "Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit."
[28] So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Men should love their wives as their own bodies because Matt. 19:5-6 says "And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."
[29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
[30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
We see all through this passage that Paul is saying that we are joined unto the Lord and He is the Head of the church (which His body) and Paul likens this to the husband and wife relashionship. Paul says "WE ARE MEMBERS OF HIS BODY". Who is the "WE" that is "members of His body"? Paul does not say "YE" (as a local church) he says "WE" (as himself included even though he was not a member of the Ephesians church).
[31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
[32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Paul just got through giving a lesson on the husband and wife relashionship, which was not a mystery, but he also got through revealing how the "we are members of His body" and that we are joined unto the Lord as one flesh (which is THE mystery according to Ephesians 3:1-9).
[33] Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
There Paul finishes he lesson on marriage counseling......lol.
That is all I know about Ephesians 5:22-33......have a great week. --Bro. Hoss
Also see Pastor David O'Steen's blog posts on this http://kjbstudy.blogspot.com/2014/01/did-paul-teach-that-church-is-bride-of.html
-Hoss
Thursday, April 24, 2014
Herb Evans King James Scoreboard
Used by permission of Dr. Herb Evans. Thanks Herb.
The King James Only Crowd
1. certain rude, crude, and lewd;
2. certain overzealous zealots;
3. certain flawed arguments;
4. certain bitter polemics;
5. certain unanswered questions;
6. certain questionable doctrines;
7. certain unethical behavior;
8. certain divorced brethren;
9. certain matters of concubines;
10. certain liars and kooks;
11. certain misspellers;
12. certain hyperdispensationalist;
13. certain interdenominationalist;
14. certain Briders;
15. certain super- and non-soul
winners;
16. no original manuscripts;
17. more than six editions;
a. spelling variations;
b. grammar variations;
c. word variations;
d. non-word for word translational
variants,
e. variations from the original koine
Greek
18. history, scholarship, and men's
traditions are no authority;
19. scriptural quotations are
sufficient to resolve the issue;
20. use scriptural terminology and
positional proof-texts;
21. preserved His inspired word
The TR Only (and worse) Crowd
1. certain rude, crude, and lewd;
2. certain overzealous zealots;
3. certain flawed arguments;
4. certain bitter polemics;
5. certain unanswered questions;
6. certain questionable doctrines;
7. certain unethical behavior;
8. certain divorced brethren;
9. certain matters of concubines;
10. certain liars and kooks;
11. certain misspellers;
12. certain hyperdispensationalist;
13. certain interdenominationalist;
14. certain Briders;
15. certain super- and non-soul
winners;
16. no original manuscripts;
17. more than six editions;
a. spelling variations;
b. grammar variations;
c. word variations;
d. non-word for word translational
variants,
e. variations from the original koine
Greek
18.history, scholarship, and men's
traditions are the only authority;
19. scriptural quotations are not
sufficient to resolve the issue;
20. use extra-scriptural terminology
and no clear positional proof-texts;
21. men preserved God's uninspired word
(almost)
Refuting "It's time to retire the KJV" heresy.
Below I will be refuting a piece of trash somebody has called an "article" that's only purpose is to try and convince people to get rid of the Authorized King James Version. Everybody is against ONE Book.
The words of the heretic in red, my refute in green.
It's time to retire the KJV
Well I think it's time to retire you.
The KJV is celebrating its 400th birthday this year and it has served the church of Jesus Christ well over those years. Its time for the church to offer the KJV a gold watch, shake its hand, and let it fade into history. Andrew Wencl, at sbcIMPACT posted an article today which facetiously (I think) suggested a resolution for the 2012 SBC Annual Meeting calling us to state that it is not an acceptable translation for use in Christian churches today – as per previous resolutions concerning the TNIV and NIV. He is on to something. It is time for serious Bible students and people in the pews to leave their KJVs home and get a more accurate, more helpful translation of the Bible to use.
Who cares what you think should be left at the house?
Who cares what you think should "fade" away?
...... "Did ye never read in the scriptures..." Matthew 21:42
Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
1 Peter 1:
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
[24] For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
[25] But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Obviously, what translation people use in their private Bible Study is not mine to dictate. However, I strongly urge pastors to read and preach from a more accurate modern translation than to keep on using the King James.
Who cares what you think is "more accurate"? I strongly urge you to shut up and quit preaching at all.
Here are my reasons. ("Yea, hath God said" Genesis 3:1)
1) The KJV, obviously, uses archaic language that makes it harder to understand the Bible. People do not speak that language today. I don’t use a Spanish Bible on Sunday – my people don’t really know Spanish. Words have changed meaning (conversation meant lifestyle, not discussion, for instance).
You, obviously, are an idiot that is corrupting the word of God (2 Cor. 2:17). People do not speak the very old, very archaic, and very hard to read Greek or Hebrew but you still attempt to read and study those texts/manuscripts, why can't I do the same with the AV 1611? It is because you are a bigot. I never told you that you shouldn't read your old, archaic, hard to understand Hebrew/Greek manuscripts. So why are you telling me that I shouldn't read the AV? That is plain Adolph Hitler, racist, Nazi, genocide, bigotry.
2) The use of Koine Greek in the writing of the NT seems to indicate that God wanted us to read the Bible in the language we speak, not the language of 400 years ago. He could have inspired the NT in the lofty language of classical Greek, but did not. God wanted people to read the Bible in their own language. KJV English is nobody’s language today, except for a few ushers praying before the offering.
The Greek texts/manuscripts are not in your everyday language either but you still attempt to read those.
3) The textual basis of the KJV is woeful. Many of the manuscripts that modern textual criticism relies on weren’t even discovered until after 1611. We are far closer to an accurate knowledge of the autographa today than we were then.
I do not give a rip about what "modern textual criticism relies on" much less when it was discovered. As for your third sentence, you seem to indicate that the word of God is lost and it is a continual process to try and find what God let become void, unprosperous, and not accomplishing anything. If that is what you are saying, you have never read Isaiah 55:10-11.....
Isaiah 55:
[10] For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
4) The science of textual criticism has made great strides in the last 400 years. Again, we simply know what the authors wrote better now than in 1611.
You do believe that the word of God lost and it slowly being recovered. "Again, we simply know what the authors wrote better now than in 1611" what do you "know" better and understand better in a modern version that we did not have in a AV first? Nothing....
5) The idolatry of the KJV-only groups must be opposed. They promote a false doctrine that should not be submitted to but opposed by those who love the Word and want people to understand it. Even the traditionalism of KJV-preference can be a little oppressive. It is a tradition without value that can actually hinder the work of the church.
I do not worship the Bible. I do not pray to it nor do I believe it is a God, but it should be exalted and magnified.
Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
If using and believing that the King James Bible is the inspired word of God makes me an "idol" worshipper, what about you? You use many versions and you use different Greek texts......you are a polytheist.
6) As Andrew said, the KJV is one of the least accurate, least clear translations we have available. When such superior translations of God’s Word exist, why use the KJV?
What do you have in a modern perversion that I did not know or understand first in the Authorized King James Version? The modern versions are very confusing on important doctrines such as the deity of Christ, virgin birth, trinity, and preservation of scripture. Who cares what this "Andrew" said?
7) The use of the King James can be counter-productive to effective outreach. If we are missional, then we are more concerned with the mission than with pleasing people and pacifying the pews. In the world at large, the KJV does not communicate to people. It seems to me that 99% of the reasons to use the KJV focus on keeping the people already in the pews happy. But the people in the pews should be concerned with reaching a lost and dying world. That lost and dying world does not relate to thees and thous and doest and goeth. It would seem somewhat anti-missional to use the KJV.
Really? What about Dr. Peter Ruckman? He has a big church, big following, he has led a lot of souls to Christ, and he has done it with an AV. I got save while listening to Dr. Ruckman preach out of an AV when I was 13.....you must not know what you are talking about. More souls have been led to Christ of a King James Bible than any other book on the face of the earth. You need to lay off the bottle!
8.) Can anyone give me one, good, biblical and rational reason to continue using the KJV?
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 3:
[14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Psalms 119:140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.
How is that? It was more than "one reason", it was "biblical" and "rational". (Unlike anything you have said yet.)
There is no question that the KJV was a blessing for many years.
So was the Model T. But I don’t drive to church in a Model T and I don’t preach from the KJV.
The KJV is still currently a blessing. If your grandparents get dementia, get eye problems, get hearing problems, etc. do you recommend forgetting about them since they are hard to understand and communicate with?
Also, the reason you do not understand a KJV is because you never study it and read it like it was the inspired word of God. You do not think it is pure and therefore you do not love it.
Psalms 119:140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.
What thinkest thou, brethren?
I think you are an idiot.
The words of the heretic in red, my refute in green.
It's time to retire the KJV
Well I think it's time to retire you.
The KJV is celebrating its 400th birthday this year and it has served the church of Jesus Christ well over those years. Its time for the church to offer the KJV a gold watch, shake its hand, and let it fade into history. Andrew Wencl, at sbcIMPACT posted an article today which facetiously (I think) suggested a resolution for the 2012 SBC Annual Meeting calling us to state that it is not an acceptable translation for use in Christian churches today – as per previous resolutions concerning the TNIV and NIV. He is on to something. It is time for serious Bible students and people in the pews to leave their KJVs home and get a more accurate, more helpful translation of the Bible to use.
Who cares what you think should be left at the house?
Who cares what you think should "fade" away?
...... "Did ye never read in the scriptures..." Matthew 21:42
Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
1 Peter 1:
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
[24] For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
[25] But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Obviously, what translation people use in their private Bible Study is not mine to dictate. However, I strongly urge pastors to read and preach from a more accurate modern translation than to keep on using the King James.
Who cares what you think is "more accurate"? I strongly urge you to shut up and quit preaching at all.
Here are my reasons. ("Yea, hath God said" Genesis 3:1)
1) The KJV, obviously, uses archaic language that makes it harder to understand the Bible. People do not speak that language today. I don’t use a Spanish Bible on Sunday – my people don’t really know Spanish. Words have changed meaning (conversation meant lifestyle, not discussion, for instance).
You, obviously, are an idiot that is corrupting the word of God (2 Cor. 2:17). People do not speak the very old, very archaic, and very hard to read Greek or Hebrew but you still attempt to read and study those texts/manuscripts, why can't I do the same with the AV 1611? It is because you are a bigot. I never told you that you shouldn't read your old, archaic, hard to understand Hebrew/Greek manuscripts. So why are you telling me that I shouldn't read the AV? That is plain Adolph Hitler, racist, Nazi, genocide, bigotry.
2) The use of Koine Greek in the writing of the NT seems to indicate that God wanted us to read the Bible in the language we speak, not the language of 400 years ago. He could have inspired the NT in the lofty language of classical Greek, but did not. God wanted people to read the Bible in their own language. KJV English is nobody’s language today, except for a few ushers praying before the offering.
The Greek texts/manuscripts are not in your everyday language either but you still attempt to read those.
3) The textual basis of the KJV is woeful. Many of the manuscripts that modern textual criticism relies on weren’t even discovered until after 1611. We are far closer to an accurate knowledge of the autographa today than we were then.
I do not give a rip about what "modern textual criticism relies on" much less when it was discovered. As for your third sentence, you seem to indicate that the word of God is lost and it is a continual process to try and find what God let become void, unprosperous, and not accomplishing anything. If that is what you are saying, you have never read Isaiah 55:10-11.....
Isaiah 55:
[10] For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
4) The science of textual criticism has made great strides in the last 400 years. Again, we simply know what the authors wrote better now than in 1611.
You do believe that the word of God lost and it slowly being recovered. "Again, we simply know what the authors wrote better now than in 1611" what do you "know" better and understand better in a modern version that we did not have in a AV first? Nothing....
5) The idolatry of the KJV-only groups must be opposed. They promote a false doctrine that should not be submitted to but opposed by those who love the Word and want people to understand it. Even the traditionalism of KJV-preference can be a little oppressive. It is a tradition without value that can actually hinder the work of the church.
I do not worship the Bible. I do not pray to it nor do I believe it is a God, but it should be exalted and magnified.
Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
If using and believing that the King James Bible is the inspired word of God makes me an "idol" worshipper, what about you? You use many versions and you use different Greek texts......you are a polytheist.
6) As Andrew said, the KJV is one of the least accurate, least clear translations we have available. When such superior translations of God’s Word exist, why use the KJV?
What do you have in a modern perversion that I did not know or understand first in the Authorized King James Version? The modern versions are very confusing on important doctrines such as the deity of Christ, virgin birth, trinity, and preservation of scripture. Who cares what this "Andrew" said?
7) The use of the King James can be counter-productive to effective outreach. If we are missional, then we are more concerned with the mission than with pleasing people and pacifying the pews. In the world at large, the KJV does not communicate to people. It seems to me that 99% of the reasons to use the KJV focus on keeping the people already in the pews happy. But the people in the pews should be concerned with reaching a lost and dying world. That lost and dying world does not relate to thees and thous and doest and goeth. It would seem somewhat anti-missional to use the KJV.
Really? What about Dr. Peter Ruckman? He has a big church, big following, he has led a lot of souls to Christ, and he has done it with an AV. I got save while listening to Dr. Ruckman preach out of an AV when I was 13.....you must not know what you are talking about. More souls have been led to Christ of a King James Bible than any other book on the face of the earth. You need to lay off the bottle!
8.) Can anyone give me one, good, biblical and rational reason to continue using the KJV?
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Luke 11:28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 3:
[14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Psalms 119:140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.
How is that? It was more than "one reason", it was "biblical" and "rational". (Unlike anything you have said yet.)
There is no question that the KJV was a blessing for many years.
So was the Model T. But I don’t drive to church in a Model T and I don’t preach from the KJV.
The KJV is still currently a blessing. If your grandparents get dementia, get eye problems, get hearing problems, etc. do you recommend forgetting about them since they are hard to understand and communicate with?
Also, the reason you do not understand a KJV is because you never study it and read it like it was the inspired word of God. You do not think it is pure and therefore you do not love it.
Psalms 119:140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.
What thinkest thou, brethren?
I think you are an idiot.
Wednesday, April 23, 2014
The 28ers "coming" and "appearing" teaching.
The 28ers make a big to do about Paul using the word "coming" in his Acts epistles and "appearing" in his post Acts epistles. They say that it is two different things. They believe that the "coming" of 1 Cor. 15 and 1 Thes. 4 is found in Exod. 19 and 24 (nonsense), but that the "appearing" is the new post Acts 28 hope of the believer. There is a ton of different problems with that.
1.) No one can prove that 1 Thessalonians is an Acts epistle. The KJB has it in the order with the post Acts epistles.
2.) 1 Corinthians 15:51 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15 says that the "coming" is a "mystery" "by the word of the Lord". A mystery by the word of the Lord in 1 Corinthians and 1 Thessalonians cannot be found in the Old Testament. The 28er thinks that because Paul says that a "saying" will be "fulfilled" about victory over death (1 Cor. 15:54-55) they think that negates "mystery" "by the word of the Lord".
3.) Philippians 3:20-21 is obviously talking about "looking for" Christ's coming and it is obviously talking about the same thing as 1 Cor. 15:38-58. You cannot "look for" Christ's "appearing" if you did not even know He was "coming"! The coming and appearing are the same thing.
Now if all that is not enough, I wonder what the 28ers would make of this.....
1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
James 5:
[7] Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
[8] Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
Here is the good one......
1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
That is enough Bible to really make the 28ers feel stupid. Is Peter teaching the Acts 28 hope and is James teaching the pre-Acts 28 hope? Oh, but John refers to an appearing and a coming as the same thing!
The 28ers do not have a verse to stand on to suggest that the "coming" and "appearing" are different.
As my Pastor says, the 28ers need to quit reading the Berean Expositor and start reading the Bible. (though a few of them are honest, but this "appearing" and "coming teaching is an obvious blunder)
Also see:
Our blessed hope and the Acts 28ers.
http://av1611studyblog.blogspot.com/2014/03/our-blessed-hope-and-acts-28ers.html
Our blessed hope and the Acts 28ers.
http://av1611studyblog.blogspot.com/2014/03/our-blessed-hope-and-acts-28ers.html
Only a 28er could.....
Last month was Acts 28er unappreciation month where we exposed them as the weirdo type people that they are. Very few of them if any believe the Bible and its preservation. A lot of them reject hell as a literal burning place because of some Greek googly gook. They are also just kind of weird and somewhat unintelligent creatures (but a few I corresponded with were smart and friendly). They were founded by some gentlemen named Chuck Belch (Charles Welch) who was bored one day so he decided to invent a dispensational position and see how much Bible he could mess up with it. Below are a couple of things that only a 28er could think up.
Polygamy is not banned in the scripture.
Yes it is. 1 Timothy 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife".
"Brother Hoss, you know that is only talking about the Pastors and Bishops".....I know no such thing. Paul is describing a spiritually mature man that would be capable of pastoring a church.
1 Timothy 3:
[1] This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
[2] A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
[3] Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
[4] One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
[5] (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
[6] Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Should only a pastor be blameless? Should only a pastor be vigilant, sober, or good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach, not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre, patient, not a brawler, not covetous, rule his house well, and not a novice? Those are qualifications of every spiritually mature man, not some special qualifications that only the spiritually elite can achieve! That is describing a man that already has those qualifications before becoming a pastor. The suggestion made by the 28er is weird and somewhat cultish. Go join the church of LDS.
Paul says that the wages of sin is death, not eternal punishment. (there is no hell)
Go join the JW's.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You do not think Paul taught everlasting judgement do ya?
Romans 1:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 2:
[2] But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
[3] And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
[5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[16] In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 3:
[4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
[5] But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
[6] God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
[7] For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
[8] And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
[9] What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(and don't forget Rom. 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. )
That sound like heaven to you chump? How about this one.
Hebrews 9:
[25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
The Bible speaks for itself.
"But Paul did not mention the word hell"......well did that sound like heaven to you? Go pass out the Watch Tower.
Polygamy is not banned in the scripture.
Yes it is. 1 Timothy 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife".
"Brother Hoss, you know that is only talking about the Pastors and Bishops".....I know no such thing. Paul is describing a spiritually mature man that would be capable of pastoring a church.
1 Timothy 3:
[1] This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
[2] A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
[3] Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
[4] One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
[5] (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
[6] Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Should only a pastor be blameless? Should only a pastor be vigilant, sober, or good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach, not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre, patient, not a brawler, not covetous, rule his house well, and not a novice? Those are qualifications of every spiritually mature man, not some special qualifications that only the spiritually elite can achieve! That is describing a man that already has those qualifications before becoming a pastor. The suggestion made by the 28er is weird and somewhat cultish. Go join the church of LDS.
Paul says that the wages of sin is death, not eternal punishment. (there is no hell)
Go join the JW's.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You do not think Paul taught everlasting judgement do ya?
Romans 1:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 2:
[2] But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
[3] And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
[5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
[16] In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Romans 3:
[4] God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
[5] But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
[6] God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
[7] For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
[8] And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
[9] What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[19] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(and don't forget Rom. 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. )
That sound like heaven to you chump? How about this one.
Hebrews 9:
[25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
The Bible speaks for itself.
"But Paul did not mention the word hell"......well did that sound like heaven to you? Go pass out the Watch Tower.
Tuesday, April 22, 2014
Examination of James 2 and justification by faith.
The book of James is one of those "oh man I wish it didn't say this" type books to some people. I will try to explain the passage in light of King James Bible believing, Mid-Acts, Pauline right-division according to the revelation of the mystery.
John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
James 1:
[1] James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
[2] My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
[3] Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
[4] But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
James 2:
[14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
In 14-18 we see that James is saying that faith alone does not save someone and that if faith does not have works than it will not save a man and that faith is "dead" without works.
[19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Here James says that you can believe and profess in the one true God, but he says that the devils will do that. James goes on to say that believing in one God is not enough and that you must have works with your faith or else it is dead faith.
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[22] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James now says that Abraham was justified by works when he offered up Isaac and that works are what makes a mans faith perfect. Some go to Romans 4 and say "but Paul says that Abraham was justified by faith". Look at the next verse.
[23] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
James says "the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God". This seems to indicate that when the scriptures said "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness" in Genesis 15:6 was also a prophecy of what would come when Abraham's faith was "made perfect" which was by works.
Genesis 15 says that Abraham received righteousness when he "believed in God", but we have just seen in James 2:19 that believing in God is not enough but that faith needs to be "made perfect by works".
[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[25] Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
There we see an example of how someone else was justified by faith and works.
Pastor David O'Steen of Landmark Baptist Church offers this which is very good.
"James uses the father of the Hebrew nation as an illustration of being justified by faith that works. In Genesis 15:6 we read that Abraham’s faith is counted as righteousness. In Romans 4 Paul uses Genesis 15 to prove that is possible for God to impute righteousness to a man on the basis of faith. James points out that Abraham was justified by a faith that worked because 40 years (40 is the number of testing in the Bible) after Genesis 15 he proves his faith by works in Genesis 22 when he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. Abraham’s works in Genesis 22 proved that he really believed what God said in Genesis 15 because Isaac was the promised seed and Abraham believed that God would resurrect him to fulfill the promise (Heb. 11:17-19). Abraham was called “the Friend of God” because he was obedient to God (John 15:14). In Genesis 22 God tested Abraham’s faith just as in the tribulation he will test the faith of the “twelve tribes scattered abroad”. Yes, Abraham was justified by faith, but it was a faith that worked. What if Abraham would not have taken Isaac up on that mountain? Notice in v. 22 that Abraham’s works made his faith perfect. Therefore what God said in Genesis 15:6 was fulfilled in Genesis 22. Abraham was not “justified before men” in Genesis 22 because he and Isaac were on that mountain alone and it was God that testified “NOW I know that thou fearest God, seeing that thou hast not withheld thy son, thy only son from me.” As members of the body of Christ we are made perfect by faith ALONE (Col. 2:10)."
Pastor O'Steen put that well.
Some ask the following questions:
Why does Paul quote the OT and say "the just shall live by faith"?
Paul by inspiration of the Holy Ghost quote the scripture different than what the original autographs actually said (dig that). Paul quotes Habakkuk 2:4
"Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."
But Paul says in Romans 1:17 "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith"
The "originals" said that the just shall live by his faith. Paul only says that "the just shall live by faith". In all other dispensations people were justified by their own faith and their faith had to be "made perfect by works". But now in this dispensation we are justified by "the faith of Christ" (Rom. 3:22). Christ's faith does not need "perfecting" like a mans faith which is why Paul says in Romans 4:4-5 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Why does Paul say that Abraham was justified by faith?
Paul is making the point that God can and has imputed righteousness based on faith. However, Paul does not go in to the matter of Abraham being justified by his faith which needed works to be "made perfect". Paul is just teaching that you can be justified by faith, for us that is the perfect faith of Christ which does not need perfecting. Everyone has always been justified by faith, but the issue is who's faith.
Also remember that Abraham's justification was not fulfilled until Genesis 22 at the offering up of Isaac. Justification by a mans faith is a process. In this age however, we are instantly justified by the faith of Christ which does not need perfecting. (also see Romans 4-5 in addition to 3)
Romans 3:
[21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
[22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 4:
[4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
[6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
[8] Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Now you do have to believe God and have faith in Christ's blood (3:25) to receive salvation and this is counted to us for righteousness according to Rom. 4:5, but after that we are instantly justified by the faith of Christ (3:22).
This gospel of the grace of God revealed through Paul.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 4:
[4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
[22] And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. (FAITH)
[23] Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him (RIGHTEOUSNESS);
[24] But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
[25] Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Acts 16:
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
1 Corinthians 15:
[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Ephesians 1:
[7] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
It is also worth noting that James 2 cannot be talking about "justification before men" as some suggest. That idea is totally foreign to scripture and is never condoned.
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
And as Pastor O'Steen pointed out that when Abraham was said to be "justified by works" at the offering up of Isaac NO ONE else was around to be justified by!
Read Pastor O'Steen's full article here http://kjbstudy.blogspot.com/2014/03/james-214-26_3288.html
Keep studying! --Hoss
John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
James 1:
[1] James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
[2] My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
[3] Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
[4] But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
James 2:
[14] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[15] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[16] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
In 14-18 we see that James is saying that faith alone does not save someone and that if faith does not have works than it will not save a man and that faith is "dead" without works.
[19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Here James says that you can believe and profess in the one true God, but he says that the devils will do that. James goes on to say that believing in one God is not enough and that you must have works with your faith or else it is dead faith.
[21] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[22] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James now says that Abraham was justified by works when he offered up Isaac and that works are what makes a mans faith perfect. Some go to Romans 4 and say "but Paul says that Abraham was justified by faith". Look at the next verse.
[23] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
James says "the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God". This seems to indicate that when the scriptures said "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness" in Genesis 15:6 was also a prophecy of what would come when Abraham's faith was "made perfect" which was by works.
Genesis 15 says that Abraham received righteousness when he "believed in God", but we have just seen in James 2:19 that believing in God is not enough but that faith needs to be "made perfect by works".
[24] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[25] Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[26] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
There we see an example of how someone else was justified by faith and works.
Pastor David O'Steen of Landmark Baptist Church offers this which is very good.
"James uses the father of the Hebrew nation as an illustration of being justified by faith that works. In Genesis 15:6 we read that Abraham’s faith is counted as righteousness. In Romans 4 Paul uses Genesis 15 to prove that is possible for God to impute righteousness to a man on the basis of faith. James points out that Abraham was justified by a faith that worked because 40 years (40 is the number of testing in the Bible) after Genesis 15 he proves his faith by works in Genesis 22 when he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. Abraham’s works in Genesis 22 proved that he really believed what God said in Genesis 15 because Isaac was the promised seed and Abraham believed that God would resurrect him to fulfill the promise (Heb. 11:17-19). Abraham was called “the Friend of God” because he was obedient to God (John 15:14). In Genesis 22 God tested Abraham’s faith just as in the tribulation he will test the faith of the “twelve tribes scattered abroad”. Yes, Abraham was justified by faith, but it was a faith that worked. What if Abraham would not have taken Isaac up on that mountain? Notice in v. 22 that Abraham’s works made his faith perfect. Therefore what God said in Genesis 15:6 was fulfilled in Genesis 22. Abraham was not “justified before men” in Genesis 22 because he and Isaac were on that mountain alone and it was God that testified “NOW I know that thou fearest God, seeing that thou hast not withheld thy son, thy only son from me.” As members of the body of Christ we are made perfect by faith ALONE (Col. 2:10)."
Pastor O'Steen put that well.
Some ask the following questions:
Why does Paul quote the OT and say "the just shall live by faith"?
Paul by inspiration of the Holy Ghost quote the scripture different than what the original autographs actually said (dig that). Paul quotes Habakkuk 2:4
"Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."
But Paul says in Romans 1:17 "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith"
The "originals" said that the just shall live by his faith. Paul only says that "the just shall live by faith". In all other dispensations people were justified by their own faith and their faith had to be "made perfect by works". But now in this dispensation we are justified by "the faith of Christ" (Rom. 3:22). Christ's faith does not need "perfecting" like a mans faith which is why Paul says in Romans 4:4-5 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Why does Paul say that Abraham was justified by faith?
Paul is making the point that God can and has imputed righteousness based on faith. However, Paul does not go in to the matter of Abraham being justified by his faith which needed works to be "made perfect". Paul is just teaching that you can be justified by faith, for us that is the perfect faith of Christ which does not need perfecting. Everyone has always been justified by faith, but the issue is who's faith.
Also remember that Abraham's justification was not fulfilled until Genesis 22 at the offering up of Isaac. Justification by a mans faith is a process. In this age however, we are instantly justified by the faith of Christ which does not need perfecting. (also see Romans 4-5 in addition to 3)
Romans 3:
[21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
[22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[27] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Romans 4:
[4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
[6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
[8] Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Now you do have to believe God and have faith in Christ's blood (3:25) to receive salvation and this is counted to us for righteousness according to Rom. 4:5, but after that we are instantly justified by the faith of Christ (3:22).
This gospel of the grace of God revealed through Paul.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 4:
[4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
[22] And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. (FAITH)
[23] Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him (RIGHTEOUSNESS);
[24] But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
[25] Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Acts 16:
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
1 Corinthians 15:
[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Ephesians 1:
[7] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
It is also worth noting that James 2 cannot be talking about "justification before men" as some suggest. That idea is totally foreign to scripture and is never condoned.
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
And as Pastor O'Steen pointed out that when Abraham was said to be "justified by works" at the offering up of Isaac NO ONE else was around to be justified by!
Read Pastor O'Steen's full article here http://kjbstudy.blogspot.com/2014/03/james-214-26_3288.html
Keep studying! --Hoss